In place upgrade question

sportsfan148 · 19 Sep 2020

Hi,
Ive never used the in place upgrade method before but it is something Im considering in the future.
When updating a build Ive always used Windows Update, I updated from 1809 to 1903 and then on to 1909 that way. Alternatively, If Im understanding correctly you can upgrade the Build from 1909 to 2004 or indeed miss out 2004 completely and jump straight to 2009 when its released by using the Media Creation Tool to create installation media for another PC using a USB flash drive instead. Then, insert the flash drive, select it in Windows and click on Setup from the root of the drive.
My logic is that if I upgrade builds in the future this way instead of using the Windows Update method it would achieve a few things at the same time as it would also give me installation media to be able to perform a clean install if required and also the additional option of a repair install if ever required. Is that what you guys do?
I ask because Ive read that a lot of people seem to download the Iso to their PC, mount it and run Setup instead so Im wondering if there is a misunderstanding on my part here?
Is an in place upgrade a better way of applying a feature update instead of using the Windows Update method and is the end result exactly the same?

Bree · 19 Sep 2020

sportsfan148 said:

Ive never used the in place upgrade method before but it is something Im considering in the future.
...I ask because Ive read that a lot of people seem to download the Iso to their PC, mount it and run Setup instead so Im wondering if there is a misunderstanding on my part here?
Is an in place upgrade a better way of applying a feature update instead of using the Windows Update method and is the end result exactly the same?

You seem to understand the in-place upgrade method correctly. Yes, the end result is the same except for one minor detail. When Windows Update does the upgrade it will record a 'Feature Update' entry to the Update History, an in-place upgrade doesn't.

There are several advantages to using the MCT to download the ISO and mounting it to perform the upgrade. The first you've mentioned, you get to keep the install media for later use. This is particularly useful if your broadband has a download cap and you have several machines to upgrade, download once and use for all the machines. You can easily make a bootable usb from the ISO should you need one with Option Four here:

Create Bootable USB Flash Drive to Install Windows 10

The second is that when performing an in-place upgrade you can choose whether or not to check for updates during the upgrade, or even perform the upgrade without being connected to the internet. Windows Update will always check for updates, and in rare cases that can cause it to fail. In such cases an in-place upgrade without the check for updates can be more reliable. Once upgraded you should check for updates in Settings. The end result will be the same.

Another advantage is that the in-place upgrade is faster, particularly noticeable on older machines with slower CPUs. The download time is about the same for both methods, but once the files are downloaded Windows Update has more processing to do. It can take twice as long as an in-place upgrade on the same machine.

How long does the 2004 upgrade take using Windows Update?

sportsfan148 · 19 Sep 2020

Bree said:

You seem to understand the in-place upgrade method correctly. Yes, the end result is the same except for one minor detail. When Windows Update does the upgrade it will record a 'Feature Update' entry to the Update History, an in-place upgrade doesn't.

There are several advantages to using the MCT to download the ISO and mounting it to perform the upgrade. The first you've mentioned, you get to keep the install media for later use. This is particularly useful if your broadband has a download cap and you have several machines to upgrade, download once and use for all the machines. You can easily make a bootable usb from the ISO should you need one with Option Four here:

Create Bootable USB Flash Drive to Install Windows 10

The second is that when performing an in-place upgrade you can choose whether or not to check for updates during the upgrade, or even perform the upgrade without being connected to the internet. Windows Update will always check for updates, and in rare cases that can cause it to fail. In such cases an in-place upgrade without the check for updates can be more reliable. Once upgraded you should check for updates in Settings. The end result will be the same.

Another advantage is that the in-place upgrade is faster, particularly noticeable on older machines with slower CPUs. The download time is about the same for both methods, but once the files are downloaded Windows Update has more processing to do. It can take twice as long as an in-place upgrade on the same machine.

How long does the 2004 upgrade take using Windows Update?

Thanks Bree for the in depth reply..cheers for taking the time mate

Im familiar with the link to Create a USB flash to install Windows 10..Ive used that Diskpart method myself in the past.
I wondered about the check for updates option as I see the tutorial recommends turning it off but on most other sites it recommends to allow the check for updates during the Upgrade to allow for a smoother upgrade.
Is the in place upgrade method to update from one build to the next build the same exact procedure as performing a repair install if you were having PC issues that needed fixing. Upgrade, In place upgrade, repair install, In place repair...Are they exactly the same thing?
Ive never tried using Upgrade before. There seems to be a few other Upgrade methods that you see too so it gets a bit confusing. There is an Upgrade option when you run the Media Creation Tool (Upgrade or create installation media for another PC), also an upgrade option that you see when performing a clean installation and booting from installation media (Upgrade or Custom install). Are these Upgrade methods the same as the in place upgrade method we are discussing ?

Bree · 19 Sep 2020

sportsfan148 said:

Is the in place upgrade method to update from one build to the next build the same exact procedure as performing a repair install if you were having PC issues that needed fixing. Upgrade, In place upgrade, repair install, In place repair...Are they exactly the same thing?

Yes, the in-place repair install tutorial using the ISO is exactly how you would do an in-place upgrade. In fact, if you use an ISO for newer version it will have the dual effect of a repair install (keeping your files and installed apps) and performing an upgrade.

There seems to be a few other Upgrade methods that you see too so it gets a bit confusing. There is an Upgrade option when you run the Media Creation Tool (Upgrade or create installation media for another PC), also an upgrade option that you see when performing a clean installation and booting from installation media (Upgrade or Custom install). Are these Upgrade methods the same as the in place upgrade method we are discussing ?

Booting from the install media is effectively a clean install. You cannot keep your installed apps, but can optionally have your user files saved to a folder on the new desktop.

Using the MCT's option to 'upgrade this PC now' or using the Update Assistant to do the same thing is similar to using Windows Update to do the upgrade. You'll keep your files and installed apps but won't get to keep the install media afterwards.

I wondered about the check for updates option as I see the tutorial recommends turning it off but on most other sites it recommends to allow the check for updates during the Upgrade to allow for a smoother upgrade.

The reason many here recommend not checking for updates is that it adds an extra layer of complexity to the upgrade. With the check for updates you will upgrade direct to the latest build, but sometimes the upgrade can fail. You'll find many posts here where after windows update has failed for a user they have been been recommended to use the ISO without checking for updates and successfully updated. After that, checking for updates in Settings will get the latest CU and take you to the latest build, so the end result is the same - it just takes two steps rather than one.

sportsfan148 · 19 Sep 2020

Bree said:

The reason many here recommend not checking for updates is that it adds an extra layer of complexity to the upgrade. With the check for updates you will upgrade direct to the latest build, but sometimes the upgrade can fail. You'll find many posts here where after windows update has failed for a user they have been been recommended to use the ISO without checking for updates and successfully updated. After that, checking for updates in Settings will get the latest CU and take you to the latest build, so the end result is the same - it just takes two steps rather than one.

Thats a great explanation mate. So I guess in the first instance, try with check for updates turned On. If it doesnt work just run the Upgrade again from the USB flash drive but this time dont check for updates.

When performing a Repair Install does it leave all Apps/programmes untouched on all drives?
I have a 128GB SSD for Windows (Drive C) and a 1 Terabyte Spinner standard hard disc (Drive D) that I install most of my third party apps to. Does the repair install mean uninstalling and reinstalling Apps on Drive D afterwards or will they still work correctly?

Out of curiosity...after an Upgrade or Repair Install does the Reset PC option in Settings/Recovery still function correctly if you wanted to use that method as it is something I have used occasionally?

AddRAM · 19 Sep 2020

The Iso is the fastest and most reliable method, to do a Feature Update or a Repair Install

IMO

I have always used Macrium if I wanted to do a Restore, I`ve never had to or wanted to do a Reset, so I can`t answer your last question.

Macrium Software | Macrium Reflect Free

zbook · 19 Sep 2020

Apps / programs should not be altered.

Reset should function.

System restore points should disappear.

See this link for more details:
Repair Install Windows 10 with an In-place Upgrade

Try3 · 19 Sep 2020

sportsfan148 said:

... on most other sites it recommends to allow the check for updates during the Upgrade to allow for a smoother upgrade....

sportsfan148 said:

... So I guess in the first instance, try with check for updates turned On. If it doesnt work just run the Upgrade again from the USB flash drive but this time dont check for updates ...

SportsFan,

The 'other sites' are not exactly wrong but Bree's advice is better.

By avoiding the check for updates, you are reducing the things Windows needs to do during the Repair install / InPlace upgrade and are therefore curtailing Windows' ability to make a complete horlicks of the whole thing.
Repair Install Windows 10 with an In-place Upgrade - TenForumsTutorials
- You can avoid updates by making the appropriate choice during the procedure
- You can avoid updates by running the procedure while you are not connected to the internet.

Like the others who posted, I also routinely do my version updates using the installation ISO [or a USB made from the ISO].
- I make a system image, I run the version update, I make another system image.
- Since descriptions of all Cumulative updates are posted in TenForums News, if there is one available I will already have downloaded it together with any 'SSU' update listed in its prerequisites so I can round off the version update by installing them / it. Again, without needing to be online at the time. And then I make another system image.

Whether you have the installation ISO or a USB made from it, you can run Repair installs.
If you have made that installation USB from the ISO, you can do clean installs as well.
Create Bootable Installation USB - TenForumsTutorials {I use Option 4}
If you cannot make an installation USB on a FAT32 drive {because its install.wim is too big} but any of your computers need a FAT32 disk to boot from then you can cope by using the procedure in
Create Edition-specific InstallUSB - [my post #555] - TenForumsTutorials - my post within the same tutorial

Best of luck,
Denis

sportsfan148 · 19 Sep 2020

Try3 said:

SportsFan,

The 'other sites' are not exactly wrong but Bree's advice is better.

By avoiding the check for updates, you are reducing the things Windows needs to do during the Repair install / InPlace upgrade and are therefore curtailing Windows' ability to make a complete horlicks of the whole thing.
Repair Install Windows 10 with an In-place Upgrade - TenForumsTutorials
- You can avoid updates by making the appropriate choice during the procedure
- You can avoid updates by running the procedure while you are not connected to the internet.

Like the others who posted, I also routinely do my version updates using the installation ISO [or a USB made from the ISO].
- I make a system image, I run the version update, I make another system image.
- Since descriptions of all Cumulative updates are posted in TenForums News, if there is one available I will already have downloaded it together with any 'SSU' update listed in its prerequisites so I can round off the version update by installing them / it. Again, without needing to be online at the time. And then I make another system image.

Whether you have the installation ISO or a USB made from it, you can run Repair installs.
If you have made that installation USB from the ISO, you can do clean installs as well.
Create Bootable Installation USB - TenForumsTutorials {I use Option 4}
If you cannot make an installation USB on a FAT32 drive {because its install.wim is too big} but any of your computers need a FAT32 disk to boot from then you can cope by using the procedure in
Create Edition-specific InstallUSB - [my post #555] - TenForumsTutorials - my post within the same tutorial

Best of luck,
Denis

I wondered if having two drives on my PC might cause problems with a Repair install. So it seems that after a repair install all apps/games installations should still work even though I have the Windows OS installed on the SSD drive (C:) and all other Apps and games etc installed on the standard hard drive (D:). The Apps/Games on drive D: wont be affected and shouldnt get messed up by the repair install requiring all the Apps to be reinstalled again afterwards.

I have never had any reason to use Macrium because I dont have loads of Apps to reinstall if a situation is unrecoverable. I just keep multiple backups of personal files.
I once copied down the following drill as a guide for recommended methods that can be performed listed in order if ever there are issues with a PC.
How does this look to you guys set out in running order of possible methods. Ive added the repair install now as an option to try too. Would you amend the order of which methods to try first or add or remove anything from the list?
1. Run SFC /Scannow
2. Run DISM followed by SFC /Scannow
3. Try running System Restore
4. Perform an in place upgrade-repair
5. From Settings/Recovery Run Reset PC Remove everything
6. And Finally, if all else fails boot from USB flash drive installation media and perform a clean installation

Try3 · 19 Sep 2020

sportsfan148 said:

I wondered if having two drives on my PC might cause problems with a Repair install.

No.

sportsfan148 said:

So it seems that after a repair install all apps/games installations will still work even though I have mainly Windows installed on the SSD drive (C:) and all other Apps and games etc installed on the standard hard drive (D:). The Apps/Games on drive D: arent affected and dont get messed up by the repair install requiring all Apps to be reinstalled again afterwards.

I have never installed any apps/games on other drives so cannot comment. But I think you are saying that you've now done this and it was alright.

sportsfan148 said:

I have never had any reason to use Macrium because I dont have loads of Apps to reinstall if a situation is unrecoverable.

I make system images because I think the effort would be repaid by the ease of restoration compared to a clean install.
- If you don't have a lot to reinstall then you might not be interested.
- But do bear in mind the additional effort of setting things up as well as just installing them [Setting, individual application options/preferences, website saved logons, ...]

sportsfan148 said:

I just keep multiple backups of personal files.

Very wise. I back up mine to several separate drives as well.

sportsfan148 said:

I once copied down the following drill as a guide for recommended methods that can be performed listed in order if ever there are issues with a PC.
How does this look to you guys set out in running order of possible methods. Ive added the repair install now as an option to try too. Would you amend the order of which methods to try first or add or remove anything from the list?
1. Run SFC /Scannow
2. Run DISM followed by SFC /Scannow
3. Try running System Restore
4. Perform an in place upgrade-repair
5. From Settings/Recovery Run Reset PC Remove everything
6. And Finally, if all else fails boot from USB flash drive installation media and perform a clean installation

Well, that's fine but I'd suggest, if it seems to be a Windows problem [rather than an application problem],
1 Search TenForums for your problem's symptoms
2 Find out if Safe mode exhibits the same symptoms - Boot into Safe Mode - TenForumsTutorials
3 Run SFC - SFC-DISM - TenForumsTutorials {Option 3 including its note about DISM for repairs}
4 See if other user accounts have the same symptoms. If they do then it is worth the effort of running Repair Install - TenForumsTutorials

- I never use System restore because it used to be unreliable and would leave you in a halfway house not knowing quite what had or had not been restored.
- I have never used Reset PC - Reset Windows 10 - TenForumsTutorials

Denis