5 desktops can't discover each other - ethernet

Small non-profit office environment. I'm their volunteer IT support.
5 desktop systems, 4 are Lenovo C560, 1 is HP Pavilion 24-b214.
All systems are ethernet connected to an Archer C7 V5 router or to a
non-managed switch connected to that router.
All systems use Windows 10, version 20H2. Most are Home edition; some may be Pro (I'll check), but as the only Administrator I don't know how they got that way. I'm seldom in the office. Automatic updates are installed promptly.
We have good connections to the internet; no performance concerns. All systems have at least one non-Admin account; some have several. All were set up as local-only, but one user seems to have acquired a Microsoft account as well.

There is only one network share in use that I know of. System4 contains a QuickBooks Company Files folder. System6 can access that folder via a share, set up years ago, mostly by someone else. I'm about as ignorant about sharing as you can get, but it has worked for some time and still does.
A personnel change has necessitated providing the same access from SYSTEM1 to SYSTEM6. I'm floundering, in spite of reading reams of stuff, including the excellent tutorial here.

Rather than continuing to blindly follow step-by-step instructions to "try this", which has been unproductive so far, I'd like to try to understand how things are supposed to work, followed by why they don't in my case. So I'll start with a simple premise: in our environment, using File Explorer, and selecting Network, I should usually be able to see, under the Computers category, all 5 computers, regardless of any shares, which account I am using, which computer I am on, etc., provided they are all turned on. True, False, or Depends?

If you think Depends is correct, here are some settings recently made on all 5 systems (only a few of which are changes from what has been present for months):
.. Workgroup = WORKGROUP
.. Private network, for which:
.... Network discovery: ON
.... Automatic setup new devices: CHECKED
.... File sharing: ON
.. All networks:
.... Public folder share: OFF (the Company Files folder is NOT in Public on SYSTEM4.)
.... Encryption: 128 bit
.... Password protected sharing: OFF
.. optionalfeatures:
.... All boxes related to SMB 1.0 are UNchecked.
.. services:
.... Start Function Discovery Provider Host - Automatic start (side question: why do some folks recommend Automatic (Delayed start?)
.... Function Discovery Resource Publication - Automatic start
.... SSDP Discovery - Automatic start
.... UPnP device host - Automatic start

So given all these settings, shouldn't I be able to see all 5 computers from any one of them? Bonus: isn't this ability a prerequisite for sharing to work?

There's one anomaly I'm aware of, Network Name. SYSTEM1 and SYSTEM2 have the same network name and I've read that is a Bad Thing. To complicate things, the navigational path to view the Network name seems to vary from one system to another and often doesn't agree with the instructions I'm trying to follow.. There's also a Computer name, Full computer name, and Description (in System Properties, in a tab called Computer Name...) and Adapter name. Is there a reliable way to find which name shouldn't have duplicates so I can correct it if necessary?

Is there somewhere a Network Discovery flowchart that shows what steps Windows goes through to find out who is out there, along with instructions for verifying that each step completed successfully or a log to examine if it didn't? Or am I dreaming?

Thanks in advance for any enlightenment you can provide. I want to do this with a scalpel, not a shotgun.

For some unknown reason, after an update, my Desktop is no longer visible in Explorer/Network to my laptops. I have a shortcut on one laptop to the Desktop that works.

I have found that running "netcfg -d" in an elevated command prompt and then rebooting resolves it, and the Desktop is visible again.

dalchina said:

Share Files and Folders Over a Network in Windows 10
Option 1
is how to set it up.

Yes, that's the general procedure I followed. I put a link to it in my original post, but the light blue font apparently wasn't conspicuous enough for you to notice.

Anyway, I went back and reviewed it again and found some differences from what I actually did:

Step 2: Refers to avoiding duplicate 'computer name'. I thought I had one, but after looking at the procedure for changing the computer name, I verified that I do NOT have a duplicate.
Where I DID see a duplicate was in Settings, Network and Internet, Change adapter options, there's an entry for 'Ethernet' that has a name below it. It's that name that is the same on 2 of the systems. Although RMB on that entry has a rename option, it lets you rename 'Ethernet', but not the name below it. In any case, this isn't the name referred to in Step 2, so I left it alone.

Step 4: As stated in the tutorial, SMB Direct is not present on Home systems (and I confirmed that all 5 systems are Home edition). SMB 1.0 is UNchecked for well-known reasons.

Step 5: I missed the Sharing Wizard. I've put it on my to-do list. Seems like a wizard would be handy about now.

Step 6: LanMan server is not present on Home edition. The other 4 services are checked as shown in my original post (2 of which aren't in the tutorial), but I changed them to start: Automatic (deferred), mostly on a hunch. Why would there be a deferred option? Perhaps to let more basic functions complete their work before these more advanced functions start.

Step 10: Public folder sharing was left OFF, as stated at top.

All other steps were performed as the tutorial describes. So I need to go back and do Step 5 on all systems, perhaps over the weekend.

Current status: File Explorer shows, in the Computer category: only SYSTEM6 on all systems including itself. In the Media category, a couple of paths to folders on SYSTEM4 show up on several (perhaps all) systems, but that system does not appear in the Computer category.

- - - Updated - - -

quandary said:

I have found that running "netcfg -d" in an elevated command prompt and then rebooting resolves it, and the Desktop is visible again.

The Help says netcfg -d "Performs a cleanup on all network devices."
That's a little too broad for my comfort level. It seems like there's a good chance it will change something, without telling me, that I'll just have to change back later, if I can ever find it. The other options meant nothing to me.

I'll save this for consideration later.

CBeall said:

The Help says netcfg -d "Performs a cleanup on all network devices."
That's a little too broad for my comfort level. It seems like there's a good chance it will change something, without telling me, that I'll just have to change back later, if I can ever find it. The other options meant nothing to me.

I'll save this for consideration later.

I have used it regularly on my Desktop and never had to fix anything later. The Network Credentials are not affected.

When you have tried everything else and still have the problem then use this. Search the web for other comments.

The basics to construct a peer network. is to enable NetBT, have everyone in the same workgroup. Use same NLA Level on all machines. And to have solid connections to Machines. Use Mapped network Drives, to share files.

Nearly Nothing connects without a password anymore.

With Home edition you cannot create groups leaving you to configure access on per user basis. It become complicated real fast.

So I create a user named Data on the server and give it a Pw and use the same user name and pw to secure and share the DATA directory on the server then use the same credentials to map a network drive from clients.

No Need to "Browse" the network from explorer to do anything. No need for them to appear there too...

The Windows Nework browser is as sloppy today as it was in windows NT4.

Go for direct connections ex:

Code:

net use X: \\MachineName\ShareName /user:UserName Password /savecred /p:yes /permanent

These can aslo be created with Windows Explorer.

dalchina said:

Thank you for taking the time to reply and your correction.

Your initial post was very long. Perhaps you can understand my failure to give it the attention you evidently expect and require.

It looks like I was unclear in the beginning of my response to you. My initial posts are usually long because I'm trying to provide complete information on my issue. In this case that included the link to a tutorial I had (with one omission, oops) followed. When I saw what the link looked like (inconspicuous) I was concerned that it could easily be missed. Not being familiar with this forum tool, I let it go. You missed the link, validating my concern. Certainly not your fault and not intended to offend. If there's a better way to include a link-under-text in this forum, please let me know, otherwise in the future I'll just use the full URL in open text.

I don't require anything. I know the folks here are volunteers. Me too. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that.

OK, just for the record I went back to Step 5 of Option 1 of the tutorial to check the File Explorer box for Sharing Wizard. It was already checked on all 5 systems.

After careful study and many experiments, I have concluded that File Explorer is useless as a way to find out the current topology of a network. It seems to prefer files and folders that are already shared with the requestor and devices that have recently joined the network, ignoring most others. Example: I shut down the router for a few minutes and brought it up again. On 2 of the 5 desktops, the router itself appeared in File Explorer, in a new section called "Network Infrastructure". A bit later, after powering off the router and all desktops, then bringing up the router alone, followed after a few minutes by one system at a time (except SYSTEM2, explained later) with a similar wait period, I was back to seeing only SYSTEM6 under Computers; the Network Infrastructure section and its contents were gone and did not return. Oh, and there's one Printer (out of several) that is visible at all systems all the time.

I tried searching for the known name of one desktop from another, using the Search field of File Explorer and a search of \\computername and \\IPaddress. Neither worked, i.e. nothing was found.

Ping had better success. It could find each computer from another, in either direction, using either the computer name (which I learned was case-sensitive) or IP address. I think that eliminates a lot of hardware problems.

Finally, following a hint on another forum, I tried \\computername and \\IP directly from a Windows + R command box. Both worked, presenting a File Manager window that:

• put the computer I had specified at the top of its display hierarchy.
• contained a Share tab not present in the usual Network view.
• showed the Company Files folder I've been searching for all along.

That's when I decided that File Manager wasn't playing with a full deck and returned to the original sharing problem.

Fingers crossed, I clicked on the Company Files folder and was told that "you don't have permission", more encouraging than saying "I can't open that". So I switched to an Administrator ID and repeated the process. This time the folder opened and showed the 15 or so files that I knew it contained.

So, as an Administrator I can now navigate to, and open, the desired file on the remote system from the system I want to connect to it. I just have to use Window + R, enter the system identifier, and be using an Administrator ID.

Since the end user will NOT have an administrator ID, I need to open the sharing permissions a bit and I should be good to go.

There are still two puzzles, one of which is relevant. The company files are on SYSTEM4. SYSTEM6 (the one all the others can see in File Explorer) has share access to those files, from a non-Admin ID. When I looked at the share permissions for the Company Files folder on SYSTEM4, I saw no specific reference to SYSTEM6. So does it have access via 'Everyone'? If so, why doesn't SYSTEM2, the one I'm now trying to connect, also have access? More scrutiny required.

The other puzzle goes back to Step 2 of Option 1 of the tutorial. I determined that I did NOT have a duplicate computer name, but I did have something else with a duplicate, i.e.:
ULA 2
ULA 2 (SYSTEM2. Since this was a dup, I kept it powered off for one experiment, way above.)
Network 2
ULA staff
Network 3
(ULA is the abbreviation for the name of the organization). Though each system displayed one of these names in several places, they were never labelled, so I have no idea what they represent or whether duplicates are bad. I didn't recall entering names like this into the systems and I reviewed the checklist I had made up and then worked from when installing the first 5 in spring of 2014 (at that time Windows 8), finding no corresponding entries. SYSTEM6 (the HP model) replaced SYSTEM3, which had died, in mid-2017. If you can look at the attached pictures and tell me what this name is called and what it is for, I'd appreciate it.

Mystery network name.zip

As usual, thanks for any constructive feedback.