Dell laptop Sleep and Hibernation issues

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  1. Posts : 14
    Windows 10
       #1

    Dell laptop Sleep and Hibernation issues


    Hello, I'm owner of a Dell laptop for a year - it's a Vostro 3500 with 1165G7 CPU and MX330 dGPU.

    Since start, I had problems with battery drains in sleep, which appear and disappear randomly - i found that it's issue with S0 low power Idle, something with chipset C-states - I think I could look up logs for details, if anyone knows where the problem lies. S3 is blocked in the firmware unfortunately... But I could live with that if there wasn't a separate issue:

    Battery triggered hibernation doesn't work in sleep. That means, that if drain in sleep occurs, it doesn't trigger hibernation as long as the device is in sleep - but it goes to hibernation once it wakes up (which is kind of annoying, when it shows login screen and turns off immediately). That applies both to battery percentage and excess drain triggers, so if a drain occurs, it can drain battery to 0%.
    However, time triggered hibernation works. I set hibernation timeout to 4h, which is usually enough to turn off PC before it discharges battery to 0%, but it's not an ideal solution.

    The issue randomly appears and disappears with various updates.. Dell support didn't help, so I'm trying to get help here. Solving sleep drain would be nice, but I'll be thankfull to find culprit of ignored hibernation triggers (they won't show up in system log until it wakes from sleep) - I guess it could be just some bad option in sleep settings..

    Thanks for any help
      My Computer


  2. Posts : 17,021
    Windows 10 Home x64 Version 22H2 Build 19045.4170
       #2

    Because you have S0 Modern standby [aka S0 Low power idle], your computer does not sleep. S0 is an idle condition, albeit an aggressive & progressive idle condition.
    Your computer is using up power because it is sort-of-on.
    There are in effect four Power/Computer states for an S0 Modern standby [aka S0 Low power idle] computer
    - Computer on, Monitor on {Work can be done on the computer}
    - Computer on, Monitor off {The monitor turning off through Power options settings initiates S0 Modern standby, the progressively severe idle condition that suppresses, amongst other things, Task scheduler tasks}.
    - Hibernate
    - Off

    There is no "Sleep" in the sense that we commonly use the term ["S3 Sleep"].
    - This is despite MS leaving the word Sleep dotted around the place such as in the descriptions of the later phases of S0 Modern standby [S0 is progressive. It will increasingly reduce the permitted activities as time passes.].

    You could consider disabling S0. Many people have found that disabling S0 automatically enables S3 Sleep despite that "S3 is blocked in the firmware" message [I wasn't one of them. I have disabled S0 and the only sleep state I can now use is hibernation. But that's still better than having S0 rule the roost.].
    Disable Modern Standby in Windows 10 and 11 - ElevenForumTutorials
    After disabling it, you can run the PowerCfg -a command again to see if S3 has become enabled. If not then you can decide to base your use on just hibernation or revert to using S0 - disabling/enabling S0 only takes a few moments.
    - When I disabled S0, I had a WiFi adapter problem which I fixed by reinstalling my WiFi driver from Dell.

    I used a sort of halfway house for a while before I finally disabled S0.
    - I set my display in Power options to always stay on.
    - I set a very dark screensaver to come on after a minute so I wouldn't have the screen staring at me all day if I wasn't actively using the computer.


    Best of luck,
    Denis



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      My Computer


  3. Posts : 14
    Windows 10
    Thread Starter
       #3

    When I said that S3 is blocked in the firmware, it means that I tried that exact tutorial :) I'd love it it worked.

    Please read my comment further to the hibernation part. That's what really bothers me. I could live with occasional battery drain caused by bad implementation of Low power Idle, but I don't like that hibernation as a backup solution doesn't work. As you mentioned, the sleep is not really sleep mode, so why the hibernation triggers don't work (or more precisely, they Sometimes work)in that mode?

    I could rely solely on the hibernation, but I don't think it's a good idea to hibernate the system every time I close the lid.
      My Computer


  4. Posts : 17,021
    Windows 10 Home x64 Version 22H2 Build 19045.4170
       #4

    "so why the hibernation triggers don't work in that mode?"
    Sorry, I don't know.
    I did not experiment with that aspect of S0.
    Your problem indicates that one of the activities that S0 suppresses is reading the low battery threshold levels. That's rather astonishing.

    "I could rely solely on the hibernation, but I don't think it's a good idea to hibernate the system every time I close the lid."
    It seems a perfectly valid choice to me. What makes you wary of using it?
    Whether it's S3 Sleep or hibernation, I restart the computer if I've used either of them half a dozen times during the day.


    Have you searched in / asked in the Dell user forums?



    Sorry I couldn't help more,
    Denis
      My Computer


  5. Posts : 14
    Windows 10
    Thread Starter
       #5

    Try3 said:
    Your problem indicates that one of the activities that S0 suppresses is reading the low battery threshold levels. That's rather astonishing.
    It doesn't even suppress reading - because the computer often hibernates after it's woken up due to battery discharge threshold (sorry I don't remember exact name) is detected in sleep - only the action of hibernating the system seems to be supressed


    Try3 said:
    It seems a perfectly valid choice to me. What makes you wary of using it?
    Each hibernation writes quite large file to the SSD - I'd like to limit that only to the necessary minimum.
      My Computer


  6. Posts : 17,021
    Windows 10 Home x64 Version 22H2 Build 19045.4170
       #6

    Papi said:
    Each hibernation writes quite large file to the SSD - I'd like to limit that only to the necessary minimum.
    Your SSD is probably going to outlive your computer even though you use hibernation.
    - All those warnings about minimising SSD use really only applied to early generations of SSD.
    - In my current computer, my SSD has been in use for over three years and has only used up 16% of its life. And I have never taken any steps to minimise SSD use.

    Denis
      My Computer


  7. Posts : 14
    Windows 10
    Thread Starter
       #7

    Thanks, you are right that it's not as bad as in times of 64GB SSDs with poor wear management, but it still seems unnecessary. Also, it still takes considerably more time to resume from hibernation than idle... And I often remember stuff I wanted to do just as I close the lid.

    Is there any way to control which activities that are supressed in S0 standby?
      My Computer


  8. Posts : 17,021
    Windows 10 Home x64 Version 22H2 Build 19045.4170
       #8

    Papi said:
    it still takes considerably more time to resume from hibernation than idle
    Yes.
    My main computer, from 2016, takes about 15 seconds to enter hibernation & about 20 seconds to resume from hibernation. [My 2020 desktop computer is much, much quicker.]
    I normally go and stick the kettle on when I start using the computers anyway so speed of waking isn't really an issue for me.

    Papi said:
    Is there any way to control which activities that are supressed in S0 standby?
    No.
    Well, none that anybody is prepared to tell us mere mortals. The fact that Windows update & the built-in email app run during S0 proves that a method must exist.

    Denis
      My Computer


  9. Posts : 14
    Windows 10
    Thread Starter
       #9

    Thanks for answers.I hoped there are at least some known registers that can change the behaviour.
    It seems I'll have to wait for update that will fix things until another update brakes them again
      My Computer


  10. Posts : 17,021
    Windows 10 Home x64 Version 22H2 Build 19045.4170
       #10

    Papi said:
    I hoped there are at least some known registers that can change the behaviour.
    I take part in every S0-related thread in this forum & ElevenForum. I have never seen any method of altering S0 behaviour other than network connectivity.
    You can choose to let your computer stay connected to networks during S0. Turning that off would save you some power.
    How to Check if Connected or Disconnected Modern Standby [PowerCfg -a] - TenForumsTutorials
    Enable or Disable Network Connectivity in Modern Standby - TenForumsTutorials

    Papi said:
    It seems I'll have to wait for update that will fix things ...
    Intel, MS & hardware makers don't think there is anything in S0 that needs fixing. Which proves that they are all the spawn of Hades.

    All the best,
    Denis
      My Computer


 

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