1.    15 Oct 2017 #1
    Join Date : Jan 2014
    Inverness
    Posts : 1,186
    Win 10

    2 copies of Windows on separate drives?


    I have a laptop and would like to install a "clean" copy of Windows for my recording studio application. Thus when I want to run regular PC apps I load the Windows that came with the PC. When I want to record, I load the "clean" copy. I know its possible to install two but can I activate both, legally with my digital entitlement?
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  2.    15 Oct 2017 #2
    Join Date : Feb 2015
    Bamberg Germany
    Posts : 17,578
    Win10 Pro, Win10 Pro N, Win10 Home, Win10 Pro Insider Fast Ring, Windows 8.1 Pro, Ubuntu

    Quote Originally Posted by fireberd View Post
    I have a laptop and would like to install a "clean" copy of Windows for my recording studio application. Thus when I want to run regular PC apps I load the Windows that came with the PC. When I want to record, I load the "clean" copy. I know its possible to install two but can I activate both, legally with my digital entitlement?
    It's only a disk swap, and you are not running the same key on two different machines, of course it's OK. And yes you'll stay activated as long as it's the exact same windows version.
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  3.    4 Weeks Ago #3
    Join Date : Jul 2015
    Posts : 9,374
    Windows 10 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by fireberd View Post
    I know its possible to install two but can I activate both, legally with my digital entitlement?
    Did you actually read the EULA (End Users License Agreement)? It contains your answer:

    b. Device. In this agreement, “device” means a hardware system (whether physical or virtual) with an internal storage device capable of running the software. A hardware partition or blade is considered to be a device.

    (iv) Use in a virtualized environment. This license allows you to install only one instance of the software for use on one device, whether that device is physical or virtual. If you want to use the software on more than one virtual device, you must obtain a separate license for each instance.
    Windows installed on two separate drives installed in the same computer from the same single license violates the EULA.
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  4.    4 Weeks Ago #4
    Join Date : Jan 2014
    Inverness
    Posts : 1,186
    Win 10
    Thread Starter

    My take is, it is the same OS on the same machine, just not with all the extra vendor installed software. It wouldn't be any different than if I did a "clean" install on the same PC. The second install (for my recording studio) will never hit the internet once installed - it will always be "off line".
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  5.    4 Weeks Ago #5
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    A Finnish expat in Germany
    Posts : 12,959
    Windows 10 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    Windows installed on two separate drives installed in the same computer from the same single license violates the EULA.
    @NavyLCDR

    Note   Note
    Please notice that the opinion presented in this post is my personal subjective opinion. It is solely based on logics, my own experience and how Windows 10 digital licensing is currently working.

    I have no factual proof in either direction if the opinion presented is how EULA should be read today, if Microsoft should bring it up to date to cover digital licensing or not.

    Windows EULA is still from time before digital licensing was introduced. Its wording and phrasing has not been changed to cover digital licensing, EULA as it is only covering scenarios before digital licensing where each Windows installation had to be separately activated with a product key or a volume licensing key.

    Digital licensing only accepts one product key per edition; if you have an activated and digitally licensed Windows 10 PRO on your PC and you setup another instance of W10 PRO in dual boot, it will be automatically activated based on the digital license of first installation. If you in your efforts to remain completely in accordance to EULA change the product key in second installation, replacing the one it got automatically due digital licensing with another product key, the machine's digital license will be changed and also the original, first installation will from here on use the new product key.

    Currently, Windows 10 does only accept one product key per edition on same machine, all dual / multi boot additional installations of the same edition using the same digital license and becoming automatically activated as soon as they have been installed and Windows has connected to Internet.

    Based on above, I think it is totally OK to install same edition of Windows 10 to a digitally licensed PC and use it without any worries about going against EULA which quite clearly does not cover digital license scenarios. I have tried to use official channels to get this clarified, having contacted both Microsoft and The Software Alliance (where MS is a founding member) directly and indirectly. I have received no answers.

    Open letter to Microsoft and The Software Alliance I posted on Twitter in January:

    To: Microsoft (@Microsoft)
    CC: The Software Alliance (@BSANewsEU)
    From: Kari The Finn (@KariTheFinn)
    Subject: Possible Copyright Infringement
    Date: January 26, 2017

    Microsoft / Windows 10 EULA text is still mostly from 90’s. It states that “… we grant you the right to install and run one instance of the software on your device (the licensed device), for use by one person at a time…”

    That was when software and OS were sold in boxes, activation lasting until re-install. One activation, one install. Now with W10 Digital License activation lasts the life time of device, one license per edition per device.

    I participate on online forums and make Windows 10 videos and tutorials. To be able to work better I use the same edition for which my PC has digital license on secondary installation on same PC with a “barebone” setup, only minimum services and startup apps. It was automatically activated based on machine signature, existing digital license the PC got with the original installation.

    People knowing me know how profoundly I am against piracy. I have multiple MSDN subscriptions and am a member of MPN, I have all the product keys I need and am willing to use one for this duplicate installation. Before doing it, I want to know your stand.

    It’s still one user at any given time, using one activated Windows 10 PRO on one and same PC. If I am making myself guilty of copyright infringement, please tell it and I will activate my secondary installation with a previously not used key. If that is the case I will also provide my contact details for you to press charges for my earlier infringement (for test purposes, to be able to take part on forums, give feedback to Windows Insider program, write tutorials and make videos I have in one or another form had duplicate installations since day 1, October 1st 2014).

    Sincerely,
    Kari The Finn
    Kari
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  6.    4 Weeks Ago #6
    Join Date : Dec 2015
    Posts : 5,907
    Windows10

    Quote Originally Posted by Kari View Post
    @NavyLCDR

    Note   Note
    Please notice that the opinion presented in this post is my personal subjective opinion. It is solely based on logics, my own experience and how Windows 10 digital licensing is currently working.

    I have no factual proof in either direction if the opinion presented is how EULA should be read today, if Microsoft should bring it up to date to cover digital licensing or not.

    Windows EULA is still from time before digital licensing was introduced. Its wording and phrasing has not been changed to cover digital licensing, EULA as it is only covering scenarios before digital licensing where each Windows installation had to be separately activated with a product key or a volume licensing key.

    Digital licensing only accepts one product key per edition; if you have an activated and digitally licensed Windows 10 PRO on your PC and you setup another instance of W10 PRO in dual boot, it will be automatically activated based on the digital license of first installation. If you in your efforts to remain completely in accordance to EULA change the product key in second installation, replacing the one it got automatically due digital licensing with another product key, the machine's digital license will be changed and also the original, first installation will from here on use the new product key.

    Currently, Windows 10 does only accept one product key per edition on same machine, all dual / multi boot additional installations of the same edition using the same digital license and becoming automatically activated as soon as they have been installed and Windows has connected to Internet.

    Based on above, I think it is totally OK to install same edition of Windows 10 to a digitally licensed PC and use it without any worries about going against EULA which quite clearly does not cover digital license scenarios. I have tried to use official channels to get this clarified, having contacted both Microsoft and The Software Alliance (where MS is a founding member) directly and indirectly. I have received no answers.

    Open letter to Microsoft and The Software Alliance I posted on Twitter in January:



    Kari
    Totally agree - there are a lot of inconsistencies eg you can use activation troubleshooter to transfer the digital licence even if original licence was oem.

    I think the crucial point in the spirit of licencing - it is intended that you can only run one device with one licence ie it is clearly unacceptable to run a host and a vm off same licence as you could run both instances simultaneously. With two installations, as dual boot on host, you can only ever run one instance at a time.

    Legally, you can image backup one, uninstall it, and run other. Then you can image 2nd install, uninstall it and restore first image. However, this is totally ABSURD to comply with an EULA that was not developed with digital licensing in mind.You can legally reuse a retail standalone licence on a second pc, provided you wipe windows from old pc (in total compliance with EULA). What is totally absurd is if you sold pc without windows to another party, and he installed windows (same edition), it will activate automatically. Is second person violating EULA, as the EULA does not even cover this situation. Clearly if first person, did this and retained pc, the first person would be violating the spirit of one licence per pc.

    Herein is the crucial difference as @Kari says, digital licences are one per device per edition. It is basically impossible to enforce the EULA of one install per licence anymore. So it is essentially just an honour system now (always was but even more so now).

    I have come to conclusion, MS do not really care about individual users doing minor transgressions of EULA, as there sole objective is to get as many people as possible onto Windows 10. Why else would free upgrades still work?

    Whislt we should actively discourage piracy, I cannot see any point in being ridiculous over minor transgressions. It is fair enough to tell a person they may be in violation if EULA (that is for lawyers to ultimately decide), but not scare user into thinking they could get deactivated for example.

    In the end, MS has to either change the EULA to reflect digital licencing, or make more effort to enforce existing EULA. If they do not, then they cannot complain if people use technical (not contractual) loopholes.
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  7.    4 Weeks Ago #7
    Join Date : Jan 2014
    Inverness
    Posts : 1,186
    Win 10
    Thread Starter

    I'm going to give it one last shot, doing some manual (temporary) disabling with "Win Patrol". If that works I can do that when I want to use it for recording instead of having to install a second drive for the second Win install. If I make " Resplendence Latency Mon" happy it will work for recording. I don't use it much for recording, only when needed for "on site" recordings and even then just the recordings. Everything is transferred to the Desktop "DAW" machine for audio processing.
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  8.    4 Weeks Ago #8
    Join Date : Jul 2015
    Posts : 9,374
    Windows 10 Pro

    It has become much easier to justify violating the EULA.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  9.    4 Weeks Ago #9
    Join Date : Jan 2014
    Inverness
    Posts : 1,186
    Win 10
    Thread Starter

    I don't see that I'm "Violating" anything. I'm using the same OS on the same machine. I'm only running one copy at any given time.
    BTW, it works. I installed a 250GB SSD and installed and activated Windows (Home) with my digital entitlement.
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  10.    4 Weeks Ago #10
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    A Finnish expat in Germany
    Posts : 12,959
    Windows 10 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    It has become much easier to justify violating the EULA.
    As you seem to have more knowledge about this than anyone else, please share your wisdom and do tell us how should we do this?

    If you have W10 PRO installed and it's digitally licensed, and you will install a second W10 PRO in dual boot, it will be automatically activated. That is an undeniable fact.

    If you change the product key of this second install, the key for the first install will be changed, too. That, as well, is an undeniable fact. Windows 10 only accepts one product key per edition per machine. One digital license per edition per machine.

    As an expert in this matter, please enlighten use not as wise as you and tell how can we circumvent this to stay in accordance to EULA? I mean, please tell how is that against EULA if the secondary installation will be automatically activated and Windows does not even accept another product key for same edition without changing the first, original installation's key, too?

    Keenly awaiting you to enlighten us.

    Kari
      My ComputerSystem Spec

 


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