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  1.    10 Aug 2016 #81
    Join Date : Dec 2013
    Sydney, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts : 10,252
    Windows 10 IoT
    Thread Starter

    I have to sign off for a bit. my sciatica is flaring up so I have to go lay down for a while. It is literally " a pain in the but".
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  2.    10 Aug 2016 #82
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    A Finnish expat in Germany
    Posts : 12,684
    Windows 10 Pro

    This might become my longest sentence ever on these forums:

    I am convinced, without tiniest factual piece of information, knowledge or source that Education really was exact copy of Enterprise until version 1511 therefore not following the same digital entitlement rules than so called consumer editions, and it still is and acts like Enterprise even in 1607, Windows 10 version 1607 presenting a new Windows edition Pro Education which from these two Education editions will be and is the "almost like Home or Pro" as @Barman58 mentioned, and the "full" Education will be and is like Enterprise regarding digital licenses..

    Note   Note
    Reading the above myself, I have not a clue what I said but I'll stick to that .


    Click image for larger version. 

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    More about new Pro Education:
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  3.    10 Aug 2016 #83
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    Newport, South Wales, UK
    Posts : 1,708
    Windows 10 Pro x64 FCU - XP/Vista/Win7/Win8.1 in VM for testing

    @Kari, there looks to be possible causes of the "new" Behaviour of whichever version of Education Versions are involved here (with 1607), that is the specialist nature of the keys, It maybe that as MSDN keys are the only way to activate a copy of education other than the "normal" Enterprise methods and so are now behaving differently that you would expect.

    It could be a trial for a special licensing option for Education ...

    I would personally not be surprised to see a version of Education to be made available that needs a key but then acts as Home or Pro with a digital licence. The reason I see this is that the education market breaks down to much smaller units that those expected for enterprise use. (small neighbourhood schools, Private Tutoring ETC). These smaller units would be better served by the availability of single unit SKU which suits the Key based Digital Licence.

    We shall see
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  4.    10 Aug 2016 #84
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    A Finnish expat in Germany
    Posts : 12,684
    Windows 10 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Barman58 View Post
    @Kari, there looks to be possible causes of the "new" Behaviour of whichever version of Education Versions are involved here (with 1607), that is the specialist nature of the keys, may be MSDN keys are the only way to activate a copy of education other than the "normal" Enterprise methods and so are now behaving differently that you would expect.

    I would personally not be surprised to see a version of Education to be made available that needs a key but then acts as Home or Pro with a digital licence. The reason I see this is that the education market breaks down to much smaller units that those expected for enterprise use. (small neighbourhood schools, Private Tutoring ETC). These smaller units would be better served by the availability of single unit SKU which suits the Key based Digital Licence.

    We shall see
    I believe you are right, I believe this Pro Education being something you can only upgrade with a normal upgrade key from Pro or Home. Unfortunately there's extremely little information available about this Pro Education edition.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  5.    10 Aug 2016 #85
    Join Date : Dec 2013
    Sydney, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts : 10,252
    Windows 10 IoT
    Thread Starter

    I've done a change product code, entered an Education key (MSDN Retail) and it upgraded to Education from Pro. Activation changed from activated with a digital license to activated with a key. (in 1511). Now though, if I do that in 1607, it stays as activated with a digital entitlement. You can also go from Enterprise to Education with the change product key option. I would have never believed that possible until I tried it. So that to me just backs up the theory Education is more like Enterprise that Pro. It was a, I bet this won't work but I'll try it anyway just for kicks, thing.
    Last edited by alphanumeric; 10 Aug 2016 at 14:50.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  6.    10 Aug 2016 #86
    Join Date : Dec 2013
    Sydney, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts : 10,252
    Windows 10 IoT
    Thread Starter

    I've been keeping an eye out for Pro Education on MSDN, not a hint so far.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  7.    11 Aug 2016 #87
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    A Finnish expat in Germany
    Posts : 12,684
    Windows 10 Pro

    I decided to do one more test with digital activation with Education edition. I used Education N because I didn't want to use any more "full" edition keys, but as you know the N versions are totally normal Windows editions, just without Media Player and other media features. Exactly the same activation rules apply.

    Here's what I did:


    • Install Education N version 1511, activate it with retail key
    • Directly after activation boot with install media, wipe HDD clean deleting all partitions and reinstalling Education N version 1511 without key, activation failed
    • Again reinstall, this time boot with install media for Education N version 1607, wipe HDD clean deleting all partitions and reinstalling Education N version 1607 without key, activation successful
    • Back to version 1511, boot with install media for Education N version 1511, wipe HDD clean deleting all partitions and reinstalling Education N version 1511 without key, activation successful


    In screenshot this last installation. Admin command prompt shows the original install time and date, compare it to time and date in clok to see installation had finished just 15 minutes earlier. Windows version is 1511 build 10586.0, activation with digital entitlement:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Conclusion:

    I am not comfortable using words "definitive proof", this being just one single test by one single user, but at least in my case it shows that original Education version 1511 installation really entitled the machine for a digital license, but it needed one reinstall with version 1607 to make it "stick", to work for later reinstalls with 1511.

    For Home and Pro, so called consumer editions the digital entitlement / license works without issues using 1511. Education seems to act a bit differently, original install / entitlement can be 1511 but to be able to get a 1511 reinstall automatically activated you have to use 1607 at least once.

    Kari
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  8.    11 Aug 2016 #88
    Join Date : Aug 2016
    Posts : 4
    Windows 10 Home x64

    -Delete Post-
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 125557rd21zbydd12jjduv.jpg.thumb.jpg  
    Last edited by KeCheng; 11 Aug 2016 at 04:33.
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  9.    11 Aug 2016 #89
    Join Date : Dec 2013
    Sydney, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts : 10,252
    Windows 10 IoT
    Thread Starter

    Quote Originally Posted by Kari View Post
    I decided to do one more test with digital activation with Education edition. I used Education N because I didn't want to use any more "full" edition keys, but as you know the N versions are totally normal Windows editions, just without Media Player and other media features. Exactly the same activation rules apply.

    Here's what I did:


    • Install Education N version 1511, activate it with retail key
    • Directly after activation boot with install media, wipe HDD clean deleting all partitions and reinstalling Education N version 1511 without key, activation failed
    • Again reinstall, this time boot with install media for Education N version 1607, wipe HDD clean deleting all partitions and reinstalling Education N version 1607 without key, activation successful
    • Back to version 1511, boot with install media for Education N version 1511, wipe HDD clean deleting all partitions and reinstalling Education N version 1511 without key, activation successful


    In screenshot this last installation. Admin command prompt shows the original install time and date, compare it to time and date in clok to see installation had finished just 15 minutes earlier. Windows version is 1511 build 10586.0, activation with digital entitlement:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	image.png 
Views:	7 
Size:	220.3 KB 
ID:	95438

    Conclusion:

    I am not comfortable using words "definitive proof", this being just one single test by one single user, but at least in my case it shows that original Education version 1511 installation really entitled the machine for a digital license, but it needed one reinstall with version 1607 to make it "stick", to work for later reinstalls with 1511.

    For Home and Pro, so called consumer editions the digital entitlement / license works without issues using 1511. Education seems to act a bit differently, original install / entitlement can be 1511 but to be able to get a 1511 reinstall automatically activated you have to use 1607 at least once.

    Kari
    I'm just waking up and haven't finished my first cup of Java, but that looks to be what I found. The One PC I have never activated Education 1607 on, won't auto activate with the Digital License. It just keeps wanting a key to activate. My other PC's that have upgraded to and activated with 1607 Education will install just fine with no need for a key.

    I really appreciate you going the extra mile, and doing the extra testing, by the way.

    Would you agree, at this point, that we were both right?
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  10.    11 Aug 2016 #90
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    A Finnish expat in Germany
    Posts : 12,684
    Windows 10 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by alphanumeric View Post
    Would you agree, at this point, that we were both right?
    Partially

    It seems that the Education edition has different rules for digital activation. Clean install of 1511 Education when activated with product key earns the digital entitlement, which was carried over to 1607 clean install on same machine without a key, then further carried over to 1511 Education clean install on same machine without a key. Conclusion: product key activation of 1511 Home, Pro and Education entitles the selected edition to digital license, but in case of Education edition the machine has had to have at least one installation of 1607 before 1511 can again be installed without a key.

    However, speaking only about consumer editions Home and Pro (and also Single Language which I have tested, too), a product key activation of version 1511 always gets the digital activation. A fresh clean install of Home, Pro or Single Language directly after activating 1511 automatically gets digital entitlement / license.

    This latter is the part you refused to believe, yet this remains valid information as long as we speak about consumer editions (Single Language, Home, Pro) of Windows 10:

    information   Information
    As soon as Windows 10 version 1511 or later is activated, regardless of the activation method or product key type, it is entitled to digital activation and license.

    Therefore, the product key or other activation methods are not needed when re-installing Windows.


    Our tests with Education edition are quite irrelevant in big picture because a normal Windows user does not use it, and when does it is / should be volume licenced through school or such.

    Kari
      My ComputerSystem Spec

 
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