update issue.


  1. Posts : 21
    win 10
       #1

    update issue.


    So here it is on tax day apr. 15 2023, I've had win 10 for a year and a half. And every update leaves the same issues.
    The mouse stutter is still here, but I'm dealing with that. I did have one person mention an idea, but he never responded after his statement and my relisting of mech specs.
    This time it's the gateway shut down on my internet. Without warning. In the middle of an ongoing session. Always after a new update. Since a year and a half ago.
    You people may love and swear by all that's holy, about ms, but I'm getting fed up with this backroom/backdoor coding stuff. it's obvious what is going on. How many times in a row does this have to happen like clockwork.
    I do manage to 'usually' fix this by accident. Because, guessing, I run a reg. editor on clean up detail. Anti virus times four. And I manage until the next forced update. This is a ritual pain. It wastes several hours at a time.
    I'm learning linux as I speak. ["22h2"] is not a good rep. of ms., and I'm not the early jumper to new stuff that I used to be. I find the things that are broke, and learn from it. No win 11 suggestions.
    Hey look at that. My gateway shut down in the middle of typing this. Just an hour after resetting it.
    IF some of you know the line of code, but want to keep the ms trust, just send me an email, and I'll keep your secret. But after all of this time, it looks like a regime change is inevitable.
    There have been some decent people on here, and a couple of egos. I won't fault the rest for those two.
      My Computer


  2. Posts : 23,494
    Win 10 Home ♦♦♦19045.4412 (x64) [22H2]
       #2

    1. If antivirus times 4 means you are running four AV programs... that's not good. Run one at most, or Windows Defender and maybe Malwarebytes for a 2nd opinion.

    2. As for Windows itself, assuming it IS the cause of your problems... an In-Place Upgrade/Repair will usually fix that.


    An In-Place Upgrade "compares" what is installed on the computer, with the Windows ISO image.
    Then, it overwrites corrupted Windows files, with clean copies from the ISO image.
    This is how it "repairs" Windows while allowing you to keep your programs and personal files.







    Repair Install Windows 10 with an In-place Upgrade



    Here is the short version of the In-place upgrade tutorial...

    DISABLE non-Microsoft:
    a) antivirus software
    b) firewall software
    c) drive encryption software

    Make a full OS backup with a program like Macrium Reflect (free)
    Macrium Software | Macrium Reflect Free

    Go here and get the Media Creation Tool and save it to your desktop.
    https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/soft...load/windows10

    RUN the Media Creation Tool and use it to: Create an ISO image... save IT to your desktop.
    This will be the latest version of the ISO image.
    The ISO must be created in the same language as you are using in Windows, to be able to keep your Programs and Files.


    Right click the ISO image and choose: MOUNT
    Open File Explorer and you will see a new drive letter. It will "look" like a DVD optical drive.
    Double click the new drive letter to open it.
    Find setup.exe and double click it to start the in-place upgrade.

    Choose the Keep personal files and apps option.

    After it's all done... to UNmount the ISO image, right click the new drive letter and choose: EJECT.


    The ONLY thing you will lose is some of your personalizations.
    Your drivers, programs and data will be intact.


    To light up someone's "Notification" bar at the top right, just quote the person you wish to notify, or add an @ symbol in front of their account name.
      My Computer


  3. Posts : 21
    win 10
    Thread Starter
       #3

    Thanks for the quick answer in spite of my rant. I currently have two win10s on two different drives. Three is you count the laptop. All the same version. All loaded at the same time, except the one I'm working from now. This one has had the 'repair' and the 'replace' with current new version. Six months ago.
    The laptop is not having the gateway problem.
    This happens AFTER the update from ms. So your suggestion is the same thing, from the same source.
    The AV is run individually to cross and counter check each other, one at a time. Some of these miss things. Avast is the constant firewall/running anti virus.
    Incidentally, I just pulled a page and half of registry hacks. That weren't there before the update. And some of those tried to re-install.
    If it weren't for the bad eyesight, I'd learn the coding myself. I may have to anyway. As it is, I watch the behavior methodology for clues. Doesn't always work if there is an internal coding switch. Without an obvious trigger...
      My Computer


  4. Posts : 23,494
    Win 10 Home ♦♦♦19045.4412 (x64) [22H2]
       #4

    frankreality said:
    Thanks for the quick answer in spite of my rant. I currently have two win10s on two different drives. Three is you count the laptop. All the same version. All loaded at the same time, except the one I'm working from now. This one has had the 'repair' and the 'replace' with current new version. Six months ago.
    The laptop is not having the gateway problem.
    This happens AFTER the update from ms. So your suggestion is the same thing, from the same source.
    The AV is run individually to cross and counter check each other, one at a time. Some of these miss things. Avast is the constant firewall/running anti virus.
    Incidentally, I just pulled a page and half of registry hacks. That weren't there before the update. And some of those tried to re-install.
    If it weren't for the bad eyesight, I'd learn the coding myself. I may have to anyway. As it is, I watch the behavior methodology for clues. Doesn't always work if there is an internal coding switch. Without an obvious trigger...



    Again... I recommend that you use only one AV program, and do the In-Place Upgrade on the machine in question.
    Until you do these things.... it's gonna be hard if not impossible to troubleshoot your problem.
      My Computer


  5. Posts : 21
    win 10
    Thread Starter
       #5

    I will do "another in place", if you can explain how running a separate AV, in it's own time space, without any other in use, interferes with the os. I keep them updated with the latest, and just use them for their scans. Avast is the only one that would be constant, and it is switched off during any other scan.
    Because there is absolutely things that each of them miss alone.
    It makes the difference between having an infection or not. Literally. Trend micro will find something that malwarebytes misses, and the reverse. For example. There is no perfect AV. At least not for long.
    If they were run together, you would absolutely be right. That's an obvious conflict. But not as independents.
    If you have ever tried this experiment for yourself, then you should be able to tell me what code is left to conflict from one time scans. All things evolve.
    If what you say is true, then how can you use the online scans in a public setting, without getting sued repeatedly. At the very least, being put out of business in a very short time, each.
    By the way, the last time I did the "in place", it only put the os at square one, with all of it's problems to clean up again. The os on the other drive is unchanged. Like a new install. No programs except win 10. It is practically unusable. Because of mouse stuttering. I couldn't tell you about the gateway, because I never get that far with it.
    All of the hardware is listed and updated. And new drivers have never corrected the faults in eighteen months. Religious updater.
    I'm not trying to be a smart @$$. But you're asking me to retrash my system a third time in a row. And you won't be here to work it out.
    All of these, are things I could recommend, and I don't code. They are shots in the dark.
    Auto fixes are not fixes in this case. If you haven't done the line code research, then you're playing somebody else's problem.
    Please explain the code interference. What is the specific hook? Or hooks?
      My Computer


  6. Posts : 23,494
    Win 10 Home ♦♦♦19045.4412 (x64) [22H2]
       #6

    @frankreality

    It's a rule of thumb... has been for ages. Multiple AVs interfere with each other, which causes OS problems.
    With Win 10 and Win 11 you can run "one" 3rd party AV which Windows Defender is designed to allow, and work "with".

    I don't write AV software, so I don't "know" the whys... I just know the rules.

    You don't have to run only one AV forever... that's your choice. But to troubleshoot Windows, I would uninstall all 3rd party AVs and do an In-Place Upgrade.
    That will take about 30 minutes. If everything works when you're done... you'll KNOW it was a Windows issue.
    If things still don't work properly... then you'll need to look to 3rd party items like... drivers, programs, etc.

    As for your desire to run a pile o' AVs... I can only tell you what the rule of thumb is. If you decide to do it... you generally will have problems.
      My Computer


  7. Posts : 18,034
    Win 10 Pro 64-bit v1909 - Build 18363 Custom ISO Install
       #7

    Hello @frankreality,

    There are MANY threads on this Forum that discuss this topic. At the end of the day, it is really down to personal choice of what you want from the Antivirus.

    Windows Security [ Microsoft Defender, formerly Windows Defender ] has come a LONG way over the past few years and is now VERY good and more than capable. Unlike other AV software, it does NOT throttle your Internet connection, or give FALSE Positives like other AV's may.

    It receives frequent Definition Updates through Windows Update [ or you can updated them manually ] to keep them current and up to date.

    From what I have read, Microsoft Defender also works quite nicely with Malwarebytes.

    For added security in case of infection, it is STRONGLY recommended that you regularly create a System Image along with the addition of backing up important data that you do NOT want to lose such as Folders, Files, Photos, etc, BOTH to an external drive.

    I hope this helps.
      My Computer


  8. Posts : 21
    win 10
    Thread Starter
       #8

    Thanks for the patience. Right now, I'm focusing on the gateway reset issue. The mouse will have to wait.
    Defender firewall is not used. I prefer Glasswire. I use Avast for primary AV, I am not aware of defender being used at all. It could be being reset.
    Several AV programs in an active state is an obvious monkey wrench, times however many you're using. But I can't find them in task manager when not in use. Would it be in the service host listing? Also, the os service listing took a long time to go through, and didn't recognize anything there either. That doesn't mean it's not in there under a different name, or function.
    One thing is certain. These issues only happen after an update. The problem is that it's way too many changes and background hooks to locate a new switch. I need the experience, just to know.
    Event viewer doesn't help either. Same issue.
    The problem is listed under something I don't recognize.
    NOW... it occurs to me... that ms updates other programs with windows at the same time. And resets those as well. Doesn't it?
    Before I forget, My thanks to GHOT, and PAUL BLACK.
      My Computer


  9. Posts : 2,732
    Windows 10
       #9

    "The mouse stutter is still here,"

    From the specs you list it is a wireless mouse. Probably just a new battery required.
    A useful item for your spares box is a standard USB wired mouse, they all seem to use the standard MS driver. If that works then it is a problem with your particular mouse and it's wireless.

    "There is no perfect AV. At least not for long.
    If they were run together, you would absolutely be right. That's an obvious conflict. But not as independents.
    If you have ever tried this experiment for yourself, then you should be able to tell me what code is left to conflict from one time scans. All things evolve."

    You cannot do that in 2023, AV applications are far too complex now as you have said "All things evolve."

    15-20 years ago I did install and run several AVs separately, but to be honest it was wasted effort.

    As already mentioned the base level is just to use the AV and firewall as supplied with Windows 10/11.

    "-SPYBOT-" 15-20 years ago I used that, however it was removed when it became intrusive and I did not like what it did to Windows Startup. I would remove it.

    "Avast is the constant firewall"
    "Defender firewall is not used. I prefer Glasswire"

    So you are using 2 software firewalls as well...

    "One thing is certain. These issues only happen after an update."

    Not here, after 180 Windows updates on Windows 10 Laptop, and 120 updates from MS and the manufacturers update App on a new Windows 11 Laptop, 22H2 in both cases. Absolutely no problems.
      My Computer


  10. Posts : 21
    win 10
    Thread Starter
       #10

    I'm not looking into the mouse problem for now. I have an entire family of mice. Wired and otherwise. Logitech and other. I've never had any problem 'till win 10. Decades.
    I will be rethinking my AV strategy. I think they've become to convoluted in specifics. Honestly, I only resort to them, when my primary comes up empty. I've tried them all except commodo. Avira was the worst experience. You couldn't even uninstall it, without it reloading later. The only answer was a new system. I could never find the 'real' hook.
    Spybot has been an accurate work horse in the number two category, if not the first. It has found new things that top line AV misses. Since XP, I've never found any reason not to keep using it.
    Two firewalls. Defender is switched off. Glasswire is thorough, very visible, and has tracking/specific blocking capabilities. ms should take notes. Avast is the primary, and yes, I pay a price for doing this, but I only get infected by being stupid. i.e. Too good to be true. Or a supposed trusted source.
    Glasswire will actually track that back, and specific program lock it out.
    I just love it when someone tries to imply to me, that MY choices are not trustworthy because I don't use edge. That just means that it's better for THEM to have backdoor access. Or outright control. And I know where to look then. And that I don't need their service.
    My theory is that we are in a time of programmer over reach. Ind. hardware and of course software. They are all trying to control things they're not supposed to be in. Instead of code, we should hire lawyers, to read agreements to find the trouble.
    It's this mix of egos that is the source.
    It's a recipe of personal hardware, vrs. corp. arrogance.
    An open mind objective, without bias, is a rare thing today.
    My experience with10 only goes to eighteen months. A child. But I am someone who verifies my choices. Proves them before moving on. If I can that is.
    I can verify that these problems happen only after an ms update. Every update. That a LOT of registry changes are made.
    I know, kind of the point. That a registry cleaning USUALLY fixes most of them.
    It's a quick fix, shot in the dark. And the list is too long to really research properly. But six out of ten times, this band-aids my problem.
    I spend the rest of my time, trying to talk to experience for a clue.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Mr. Black,
    I'm enjoying your objective.
    Defender does do it's job well, but I've found that it chooses what it likes, and hides their access. On the occasion that I find a troubled program, I sometimes have to fight with it, just to block it off. It's not as visible as I would like. Glasswire does this, and is very easy to click and forget, so I can move on. If I was wrong, that's an easy click too.
    Druthers.
    I do have an external back up.
    Thanks.
      My Computer


 

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