Help to understand new Windows 10 1903 updates regime - cumulative upd


  1. Posts : 13
    Windows 10 IP
       #1

    Help to understand new Windows 10 1903 updates regime - cumulative upd


    Hi All,

    I am a computer repair engineer and I have been banging my head to try and find the process flow for the new updates regime in the latest build of Windows 10 1903 - specifically with respect to Cumulative updates and the rules surrounding when and if they are installed automatically and the best practice around installing them in a timely fashion.

    I realise that now "Cumulative Updates" are shown under the regular weekly/monthly/emergency updates that are installed automatically in the background but don't quite get how and when the cumulative updates will be automatically installed (if at all). I appreciate that it is a good thing (generally) to wait for a week/month or so before installing the latest cumulative update to be sure that all of the bugs are ironed out / Microsoft pull the update because its a pig. If one should never go into the updates screen then at what point (after its release date) will a cumulative update be installed automatically?

    Is it the case that it will never be installed automatically and all of the little updates that go to make up the cumulative update will simply negate the need to ever install it. If that is the case then whats the point in offering it at all if the best advice is to generally wait 2-4 weeks before installing the cumulative update. Surely by that point all of the smaller updates will have been downloaded and installed negating the validity of the cumulative one.

    I want to give my customers good advice about when to install (manually) updates - if at all. I also appreciate that if one goes into the updates screen and checks for updates then you are telling Microsoft that you want the latest and greatest fixes and it will offer the cumulative update if one exists and its not already installed (but not install it automatically).

    Thanks for reading and I look forward to a pointer in the right direction

    Paul
      My Computer


  2. Posts : 25,107
    10 Home x64 (21H2) (10 Pro on 2nd pc)
       #2

    smipx said:
    I realise that now "Cumulative Updates" are shown under the regular weekly/monthly/emergency updates that are installed automatically in the background but don't quite get how and when the cumulative updates will be automatically installed (if at all). I appreciate that it is a good thing (generally) to wait for a week/month or so before installing the latest cumulative update to be sure that all of the bugs are ironed out / Microsoft pull the update because its a pig. If one should never go into the updates screen then at what point (after its release date) will a cumulative update be installed automatically?

    1903 is no different from previous versions in this. Each Cumulative Update contains all the security fixes and non-security patches from the previous ones. Once a month on the second Tuesday (aka Patch Tuesday) new security fixes will be released. This is known as the 'B release'. This is the only CU that will be installed automatically.

    Any CUs issued in the third or fourth weeks (C/D releases) are previews of the non-security patches to be included in the next B release. They have no new security fixes. As such they are optional and will not install automatically. They are not issued routinely, but may be issued if a previous CU has introduced issues.

    For security reasons it would be a good idea to install the Patch Tuesday CU on release. For the C/D releases there is no compelling reason to install them. Unless your customers are affected by one of the issues they address (listed in the release notes for each CU) they can safely ignore the 'download and install now' option that accompanies these C/D releases.

    For more details see...

    Windows 10 monthly security and quality updates overview
      My Computers


  3. Posts : 13
    Windows 10 IP
    Thread Starter
       #3

    Thanks for that. I must be being really thick on this one :-(

    So I have this under updates at the moment (for example)

    Help to understand new Windows 10 1903 updates regime - cumulative upd-image.png

    So update KB4512941 is a "B" release? If so when will it automatically get installed rather than just being out there and not installed?

    I am still really confused...

    Before a few months ago (when I went over to 1903 the Cumulative updates got installed pretty much straight away which is why I don't understand when you say "nothing has changed". I could sit there in the knowledge that I had the latest cumulative update automatically applied (for better or worse) but now I am never sure if I am badly out of date without going into manual updates an checking.

    To test - I waited quite some days after seeing the update and it still sat there weeks later (on a previous cumulative update).

    Thanks again

    Paul


    Thanks
    Paul
      My Computer


  4. Posts : 25,107
    10 Home x64 (21H2) (10 Pro on 2nd pc)
       #4

    smipx said:
    So update KB4512941 is a "B" release? If so when will it automatically get installed rather than just being out there and not installed?
    No, KB4512941 was released in the last week of August and contains no new security fixes, as such it is optional and will only install if you click 'download and install now'. The B release was issued in the 2nd week of the month.

    This non-security update includes quality improvements...
    Cumulative Update KB4512941 Windows 10 v1903 build 18362.329 - Aug. 30


    Before a few months ago (when I went over to 1903 the Cumulative updates got installed pretty much straight away which is why I don't understand when you say "nothing has changed".

    What has changed is the introduction of the 'download and install now' option. Previously these optional updates would install automatically if you clicked 'check for updates' but not be installed by windows update's automatic check. Now they will be found by windows update, but only install if you ask it to.

    But that change is not exclusive to 1903. On the release of 1903 Microsoft retro-fitted the 'download and install now' option into 1803 and 1809 in their May 21st cumulative updates. Although this option is mainly intended to give control over feature updates, it also applies to these optional cumulative updates.

    Starting with update KB4497934, we are introducing functionality that allows you to decide when to install a feature update. You control when you get a feature update while simultaneously keeping your devices up to date. Feature updates that are available for eligible devices will appear in a separate module on the Windows Update page (Settings > Update & Security > Windows Update). If you would like to get an available update right away, select Download and install now.
    Cumulative Update KB4497934 Windows 10 v1809 Build 17763.529 - May 21


    Starting with update KB4499183, we are introducing functionality that allows you to decide when to install a feature update...
    Cumulative Update KB4499183 Windows 10 v1803 Build 17134.799 - May 21
      My Computers


  5. Posts : 985
    Windows 10 Home 21H1
       #5

    smipx said:
    Thanks for that. I must be being really thick on this one :-(

    So I have this under updates at the moment (for example)

    Help to understand new Windows 10 1903 updates regime - cumulative upd-image.png

    So update KB4512941 is a "B" release? If so when will it automatically get installed rather than just being out there and not installed?

    I am still really confused...

    Before a few months ago (when I went over to 1903 the Cumulative updates got installed pretty much straight away which is why I don't understand when you say "nothing has changed". I could sit there in the knowledge that I had the latest cumulative update automatically applied (for better or worse) but now I am never sure if I am badly out of date without going into manual updates an checking.

    To test - I waited quite some days after seeing the update and it still sat there weeks later (on a previous cumulative update).

    Thanks again

    Paul


    Thanks
    Paul
    Hi Paul. I hope Bree doesn't mind me jumping in to help here.
    Don't worry mate..you're definitely not thick. It is confusing mate. I had a similar question as you're asking just a few weeks ago. Following on from your screenshot..it looks like update KB4512941 is still at the C or D stage ( still showing as Optional Update). For the same reasons as you I didn't install it at this stage. You'll find It will become a B release on the next Patch Tuesday. I presumed it would then just automatically install.....but it didn't. In my case it then showed up with the Download button..exactly as is showing underneath the Cumulative Update Net Framework in your screenshot.
    At this point I wondered what would happen if I left it alone so I didn't select the Download button manually ..would it Automatically Update? I found that it took 72 hours and I was notified I needed to Restart my PC on the taskbar. I did and it was then automatically updated. So at that stage you can either then install it manually with the Download button immediately or it will install itself automatically within 2 to 3 days. Hope that clarifies it a bit for you. (The exact same thing will apply to the Cumulative Update for .Net Framework that you have showing...install it immediately or let it automatically install within about 3 days.
      My Computer


  6. Posts : 1,765
    Windows 10 Home
       #6

    "smipx said: Thanks for that. I must be being really thick on this one :-(" ... So I have this under updates at the moment (for example)

    It might help to think of Week 1 in any month is A, Week 2 is B, Week 3 is C and Week 4 is D. Nothing is usually issued in A. B is a required install issued on Tues (hence term Patch Tues) and will do so automatically; eg' next week, you can expect a required CumUpdate on Tues.
    C and D releases can come any day that week, and as prev posters indicated, are non-critical so, if you don't want to interrupt work flow, they can be put off for a few days. C and D updates are rolled into the next B release. Personally,
    I recommend just installing them, as they usually have quick fixes for issues created by prev updates.

    Bottom line, If any of your customers have not initiated KB4512941, they may as well wait until next Tues 9/9 and do everything at once. Hope all this didn't add more dirt to your mud mix.
      My Computer


  7. Posts : 35,618
    Win 10 Pro (21H2) (2nd PC is 21H2)
       #7

    That KB4512941 isn't truly ready for release is shown by the number reporting a particular problem (solution in post #17)
    Cumulative Update KB4512941 Windows 10 v1903 build 18362.329 - Aug. 30

    You might be interested to be aware of the news thread per update per build in the News section- with user comments and experience following- such as that one.
      My Computers


  8. Posts : 13
    Windows 10 IP
    Thread Starter
       #8

    Ah haaaa.. Geronimo moment... Finally he gets it I get it.....
    All of the explanations together make sense now so a big thanks to all and especially Bree and Sportsfan148

    The missing piece for me was not realising that the update sitting there was a D release (or could have been an A or C as well). Eventually the patches within get promoted to a B status on the second Tuesday and then it will automatically move out of "Optional". Its a shame the nomenclature of the updates does not reflect the A,B,C,D nature to allow one to immediately see that it is not a B. I know I can of course go and look at the KB article and work out from the date of release but that all takes time or - I guess from the fact that it is under "optional" tells me that its not a B release though right?. I assume that the B updates released on 2nd Tuesday of the month never go under "optional".

    Do MS never release an update under "B" that screws a lot of folk up then? I thought the point of this extra granularity was to put in place a buffer to stop mistakes / lack of testing in enough scenarios. If no-one hardly installs the A,C and D status patches (as they are only optional and most folk will never go into manually check) then how do they get a good handle as to whether it's a "dog" or not before imposing it on everyone under the "b" regime?

    Cheers,
    Paul
    Last edited by smipx; 06 Sep 2019 at 10:13.
      My Computer


  9. Posts : 25,107
    10 Home x64 (21H2) (10 Pro on 2nd pc)
       #9

    smipx said:
    Do MS never release an update under "B" that screws a lot of folk up then?
    Sometimes, but usually it's only a few specific folks (often business customers). When that happens and a fix is produced a C/D release is normally issued. Being optional, those affected can install it, while those of us not affected won't be bothered by an extra forced reboot to install it.
      My Computers


  10. Posts : 985
    Windows 10 Home 21H1
       #10

    [QUOTE=smipx;1713192]Ah haaaa.. Geronimo moment... Finally he gets it I get it.....
    All of the explanations together make sense now so a big thanks to all and especially Bree and Sportsfan148

    No problem mate..glad to help

    The missing piece for me was not realising that the update sitting there was a D release (or could have been an A or C as well). Eventually the patches within get promoted to a B status on the second Tuesday and then it will automatically move out of "Optional". Its a shame the nomenclature of the updates does not reflect the A,B,C,D nature to allow one to immediately see that it is not a B. I know I can of course go and look at the KB article and work out from the date of release but that all takes time or - I guess from the fact that it is under "optional" tells me that its not a B release though right?. I assume that the B updates released on 2nd Tuesday of the month never go under "optional".

    That's right, as soon as you see "Optional" you know straight away its not a B release and you know on the next Patch Tuesday it will then become a B release.
    No, the B releases on Patch Tuesday will never appear as Optional because they will also include Security updates which need to be installed.


    Do MS never release an update under "B" that screws a lot of folk up then? I thought the point of this extra granularity was to put in place a buffer to stop mistakes / lack of testing in enough scenarios. If no-one hardly installs the A,C and D status patches (as they are only optional and most folk will never go into manually check) then how do they get a good handle as to whether it's a "dog" or not before imposing it on everyone under the "b" regime?

    I presume that Microsoft will rely a lot of the Insider guys to notify them when there are problems. I suppose there's still a chance of possible issues in a B release on certain PC's and setups
      My Computer


 

  Related Discussions
Our Sites
Site Links
About Us
Windows 10 Forums is an independent web site and has not been authorized, sponsored, or otherwise approved by Microsoft Corporation. "Windows 10" and related materials are trademarks of Microsoft Corp.

© Designer Media Ltd
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 23:42.
Find Us




Windows 10 Forums