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  1. Joined : Oct 2013
    Penns Forrest
    Posts : 3,506
    Win_8.1-Pro, Win_10.1607-Pro, Mint_17.3
       31 Jul 2015 #41

    DeaconFrost said: View Post
    TI can see both outcomes happening.
    One point to add, the qualifying system you're upgrading must be activated. I played around with dual-booting Win8.1 and MS denied that (it told me the key was in use on another system). So there seems to be multiple authentications in this case, the original OS (activated) and whatever Win10 does with it's generic key hashing - it would be a good test though.

    I strongly suspect that the subsequent install of the original OS will not activate - that then is not a qualifying OS that you could use to do the Win10 upgrade.

    +edit
    MS has stated that hactivated or non-authentic systems will upgrade to Win10, but they will not be activated.
    2. Installation and Use Rights.
    a. License. The software is licensed, not sold. Under this agreement, we grant you the right to install and run one instance of the software on your device (the licensed device), for use by one person at a time, so long as you comply with all the terms of this agreement.

    Updating or upgrading from non-genuine software with software from Microsoft or authorized sources does not make your original version or the updated/upgraded version genuine, and in that situation, you do not have a license to use the software.
    Remember the hubbub about pirated versions ??

    I suppose you might be able to rearm what is then basically a trial install, but I'm not certain.
    It's also unclear what happens when the trial period, or extensions of it, expire.
    Warnings, then no boot?

    I only know that some features of Windows 10 (personalization for example) are not available if the install is not authenticated and activated.

    The new licensing agreement closely follows the old licensing agreement. Mostly, the wording has been simplified and some EULAs are consolidated into one. MS will most likely issue new EULAs as Win10 and other MS programs (Office 2016) mature.
    -edit
    Last edited by Slartybart; 31 Jul 2015 at 13:56.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  2. Joined : Aug 2014
    Posts : 67
    Windows 7 SP1, Home Premium, 64-bit
       31 Jul 2015 #42

    Mark Phelps said: View Post
    If you buy a Retail copy, you can install that on one machine, and later, transfer that to a second machine, presuming you then remove it from the first. But the "free upgrade" (IMHO) does not work that way. It can be applied to one machine, but it is only good for "the life of that device".
    Mark:

    You could be right.

    But are you just surmising?

    I ask because we've been repeatedly told that someone upgrading to 10 from retail 7 or 8.1 via the "free upgrade" will retain retail status--and all that implies---e.g. have what amounts to "retail 10", with the right to install to new hardware repeatedly and indefinitely into the future, albeit on only ONE PC. Thereby avoiding the "life of the device" issue.

    Are you surmising? Any links? I'm not disagreeing, just trying to understand why you have the opinion.

    Again, I'm referring to the "free upgrade" on a RETAIL Win 7 or 8---and then future clean installs to whatever hardware on ONE PC per license.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  3. Joined : Jan 2015
    Posts : 167
    Windows 7 Ultimate 64
       31 Jul 2015 #43

    The free upgrade will be associated with the Win 7 / 8 license it is applied to. A retail Win 7 / 8 license can transfer to a new PC, and the Windows 10 upgrade will still be available to be applied to that new installation, even after the 1-year free upgrade offer has passed.

    It seems that the free upgrade acts as OEM on the PC which it is installed to, but the ability to upgrade to Windows 10 remains transferable for retail Win 7 / 8 licenses, albeit requiring a convoluted installation process.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  4. Joined : Aug 2014
    Posts : 67
    Windows 7 SP1, Home Premium, 64-bit
       31 Jul 2015 #44

    Delicieuxz said: View Post
    the ability to upgrade to Windows 10 remains transferable for retail Win 7 / 8 licenses, albeit requiring a convoluted installation process.
    I assume "convoluted" means that later Win 10 installs on future completely different hardware would require that the underlying OS license (retail 7/8) be physically installed and activated on the new hardware and after that is done, the user could then do a clean install from the downloadable 10 ISO via bootable DVD/USB?

    Would the original retail 7 Product Key have to be reactivated or retrieved in some sense from MS servers for future install number 3 or 15 and would that require a Microsoft Account of some type as opposed to a purely local account? I'm assuming it's rendered void in some sense at the time of the first "free upgrade install" on the old hardware.

    Can anyone point to a link to anyone who has in fact already gone through this procedure, successfully or not?

    Or are we all making assumptions based on documents or statements, possibly authoritative and possibly not?
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  5. Joined : Sep 2014
    Posts : 2,923
    Windows 10 Pro
       31 Jul 2015 #45

    I have performed this action several times already. You can do it to, just try to install Windows 10 clean to a virtual machine, and you won't be able to get it activated. You will have to upgrade from Windows 7/8.x. Then the upgrade works.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  6. Joined : Oct 2013
    Penns Forrest
    Posts : 3,506
    Win_8.1-Pro, Win_10.1607-Pro, Mint_17.3
       31 Jul 2015 #46

    Delicieuxz said: View Post
    ...
    It seems that the free upgrade acts as OEM on the PC which it is installed to, but the ability to upgrade to Windows 10 remains transferable for retail Win 7 / 8 licenses, albeit requiring a convoluted installation process.
    Apparently, German law allows transfer of OEM licenses, the same as Retail. When I looked at the supplemental information aka.ms/transfer - there was none. In other words, only German law removes the distinction. between OEM and Retail.

    Convoluted installation process in that the original license must be installed first and activated, then upgraded, then phone activated? That seems reasonable enough.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  7. Joined : Oct 2013
    Penns Forrest
    Posts : 3,506
    Win_8.1-Pro, Win_10.1607-Pro, Mint_17.3
       31 Jul 2015 #47

    Mystere said: View Post
    I have performed this action several times already. You can do it to, just try to install Windows 10 clean to a virtual machine, and you won't be able to get it activated. You will have to upgrade from Windows 7/8.x. Then the upgrade works.
    It was the first thing I tried - a clean install in a dual boot (not a VM). It will NOT activate!

    Upgrading went surprisingly well and activation did NOT require any key to be entered. The process found and used the OEM licensing information to activate Win10. This was on a box that GWX said could not be upgraded
    - hmmmmm, I never trusted that GWX appraiser

    One sweet thing - Windows Essentials Mail (weMail) was on the Win7 box and it carried over to Win10. Why do I mention that? Because I could not install weMail on my Tech Preview clean installs due to an installer dependency of .NET 3.5
    - no I didn't try compatibility or turn on 3.5 in features on the TP box, I might once things settle down.
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  8. Joined : Aug 2014
    Posts : 67
    Windows 7 SP1, Home Premium, 64-bit
       31 Jul 2015 #48

    Mystere said: View Post
    I have performed this action several times already. You can do it to, just try to install Windows 10 clean to a virtual machine, and you won't be able to get it activated. You will have to upgrade from Windows 7/8.x. Then the upgrade works.
    Mystere:

    Any comments on my second paragraph in post 44?

    My current intent is to use a local account.

    I vaguely recall a post on some semi-official MS forum a month or so back alleging that the Product Key underlying the upgrade install would have to be "reactivated" or "reauthorized" in some sense via access to a "Microsoft Store" (whatever that is) before it could be later used to reinstall the underlying OS (say Win 7 Retail). If true, access to that "Microsoft Store" may require a Microsoft Account?

    I have no idea if that post was true or not. I have never used Win 10 and won't be using VMs to learn about the install/licensing nuances. I certainly don't need Win 10 in any sense, but might go for it nonetheless purely for the extended support window as compared to 2020 for Win 7. I have no inclination to use "apps" or the "Microsoft Store" and am looking to do a local install. I've got a one PC household, however uncommon that might be. My portable devices are a Honda and a TV remote control.
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  9. Joined : Oct 2014
    Posts : 1,541
    W7 32 bit, Linux Mint Xfce 18 64 bit
       31 Jul 2015 #49

    Mystere said: View Post
    I have performed this action several times already. You can do it to, just try to install Windows 10 clean to a virtual machine, and you won't be able to get it activated. You will have to upgrade from Windows 7/8.x. Then the upgrade works.
    Mystere

    You might need to wait tell after 31 days to test that hypothesis. What I though was odd, Microsoft faq tells windows 7 pre-installed user(s) to use the coa key on the back or bottom of the device.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10.    31 Jul 2015 #50

    Sorry, I have not not been following this thread very closely... but to clear things up...

    One upgrades via activated Win 7SP1/Win8.1 to the appropiate version of Win10 and is assigned a store licence that is attached to your device ID (rather than your MSA) - subsequent activation is thus keyless as the device ID is propogated to the activation server as proof of "purchase" as a key would in non-upgrade circumstances. Seems a no-brainer to me... or am I missing something?
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


 
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