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  1.    11 Aug 2015 #121
    Join Date : Jul 2015
    Posts : 55
    Windows 10 Pro
    Thread Starter

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2005 View Post
    Since you have a retail license, that shouldn't be a problem, so has been said. If you have a retail Windows 7 or 8... you will have the same license in Windows 10 if you upgrade.
    Except it isn't quite the same and that's what this thread is all about! It doesn't have a product key so if I want to transfer Windows 10 to another PC later on then I cannot directly activate a clean installation. I have to install my old OS first and upgrade from that. Even though I only have to do it once for each time I switch computer, it's still an unwanted inconvenience.

    I'm sure it's a non-issue for the average user and I daresay it will make no difference whatsoever to the overall popularity and success of Windows 10. However, I'm not the average user and for me it's a problem. After all, when I install my retail version of WIndows 8.1 on a new PC, I don't have to install Windows 7 first!

    You could ague that it's a relatively small price to pay for a free upgrade to Windows 10. I just think it's an important distinction that needs to be made between a proper Windows retail licence and the free upgrade to Windows 10. The licence terms may remain the same but the activation procedure (on new hardware) adds an extra level of inconvenience.
    Last edited by wiggly1uk2000; 11 Aug 2015 at 03:05.
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  2.    11 Aug 2015 #122
    Join Date : Jul 2015
    United States
    Posts : 165
    Windows 10 Home x64

    Quote Originally Posted by wiggly1uk2000 View Post
    Except it isn't quite the same and that's what this thread is all about! It doesn't have a product key so if I want to transfer Windows 10 to another PC later on then I cannot directly activate a clean installation. I have to install my old OS first and upgrade from that. Even though I only have to do it once for each time I switch computer, it's still an unwanted inconvenience.

    I'm sure it's a non-issue for the average user and I daresay it will make no difference whatsoever to the overall popularity and success of Windows 10. However, I'm not the average user and for me it's a problem. After all, when I install my retail version of WIndows 8.1 on a new PC, I don't have to install Windows 7 first!

    You could ague that it's a relatively small price to pay for a free upgrade to Windows 10. I just think it's an important distinction that needs to be made between a proper Windows retail licence and the free upgrade to Windows 10. The licence terms may remain the same but the activation procedure (on new hardware) adds an extra level of inconvenience.
    Yea, it's a bit cumbersome, but it'd be a minor inconvenience for me. Although, I'm running OEM, so I'll have to buy Windows 10 when I have to replace certain parts in the future.
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  3.    11 Aug 2015 #123
    Join Date : Aug 2015
    I'm in the ghetto
    Posts : 705
    Windows 10 Pro x64

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2005 View Post
    If you have a retail Windows 7 or 8... you will have the same license in Windows 10 if you upgrade.
    That is not the position held by Microsoft. The free upgrade is a promotional offer. Microsoft do not consider it to be a normal upgrade. Come July 29 2016 the Retail promotional upgrade will convert to what is now referred as a preinstalled version of the license (oem). So if the motherboard is changed after this date and the customer still wants Windows 10 on their device, they will have to purchase a new license. The customer also has the option to roll back to their original Win7 or 8.1 retail license instead but the promotional free upgrade will no longer be valid.

    They have been made aware that their position contradicts the EULA.
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  4.    11 Aug 2015 #124
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    Newport, South Wales, UK
    Posts : 1,921
    Windows 10 Pro x64 FCU - XP/Vista/Win7/Win8.1 in VM for testing

    Please supply links to Microsoft documentation of this
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  5.    11 Aug 2015 #125
    Join Date : Jan 2015
    Posts : 167
    Windows 7 Ultimate 64

    Quote Originally Posted by WhyMe View Post
    That is not the position held by Microsoft. The free upgrade is a promotional offer. Microsoft do not consider it to be a normal upgrade. Come July 29 2016 the Retail promotional upgrade will convert to what is now referred as a preinstalled version of the license (oem). So if the motherboard is changed after this date and the customer still wants Windows 10 on their device, they will have to purchase a new license. The customer also has the option to roll back to their original Win7 or 8.1 retail license instead but the promotional free upgrade will no longer be valid.

    They have been made aware that their position contradicts the EULA.
    Microsoft have said like-for-life license upgrades, retaining all original license rights. That means retail for retail. Also, Microsoft cannot take away a person's retail license rights in exchange for an OEM license. That is a transfer of equity, and not free, but costing the consumer, and therefore is a purchase, or barter, and subject to different laws.

    Once Microsoft has offered the free upgrade under the conditions of their like-for-like presentation, and a person upgrades, Microsoft cannot take away the legal ownership rights a person who upgraded then holds over their use of Windows 10. That license is then forever that person's under the terms which it was accepted, and retaining all of their original Win 7 / 8 usage rights.

    The way some people argue things in this forum, Microsoft would have to be a greater authority than their national government, and them full subject and slave to Microsoft, with less than human status before them.
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  6.    11 Aug 2015 #126
    Join Date : Aug 2015
    I'm in the ghetto
    Posts : 705
    Windows 10 Pro x64

    Quote Originally Posted by Delicieuxz View Post
    Microsoft have said like-for-life license upgrades, retaining all original license rights. That means retail for retail. Also, Microsoft cannot take away a person's retail license rights in exchange for an OEM license. That is a transfer of equity, and not free, but costing the consumer, and therefore is a purchase, or barter, and subject to different laws.

    Once Microsoft has offered the free upgrade under the conditions of their like-for-like presentation, and a person upgrades, Microsoft cannot take away the legal ownership rights a person who upgraded then holds over their use of Windows 10. That license is then forever that person's under the terms which it was accepted, and retaining all of their original Win 7 / 8 usage rights.

    The way some people argue things in this forum, Microsoft would have to be a greater authority than their national government, and them full subject and slave to Microsoft, with less than human status before them.
    The upgrade is only promotional offer. That is why your argument contradicts the assertion of Microsoft. If it is considered a free promotional upgrade than your transfer rights within the EULA become invalid.

    If you believe the argument of Microsoft is flawed then you need to raise that with Microsoft HQ (and I urge you to do so). I'm just letting your know their perspective and how that can impact upon your right to transfer.
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  7.    11 Aug 2015 #127
    Join Date : Jan 2015
    Posts : 167
    Windows 7 Ultimate 64

    Quote Originally Posted by WhyMe View Post
    The upgrade is only promotional offer. That is why your argument contradicts the assertion of Microsoft. If it is considered a free promotional upgrade than your transfer rights within the EULA become invalid.

    If you believe the argument of Microsoft is flawed then you need to raise that with Microsoft HQ (and I urge you to do so). I'm just letting your know their perspective and how that can impact upon your right to transfer.
    An offer being promotional does not influence the rights of a person's owned license in away way. If the license is upgraded to Windows 10, it still retains its original rights properties.
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  8.    11 Aug 2015 #128
    Join Date : Aug 2015
    I'm in the ghetto
    Posts : 705
    Windows 10 Pro x64

    Quote Originally Posted by Delicieuxz View Post
    An offer being promotional does not influence the rights of a person's owned license in away way. If the license is upgraded to Windows 10, it still retains its original rights properties.
    I fully agree with you. But whether I agree with you is neither here nor there. And there is little point discussing it in a forum. Like I said, if you disagree with the method that Microsoft have used to roll out their free promotional upgrade then you need to raise that with Microsoft Corporate HQ. If you do no make your point to them then you'll be losing your retail license. It's just the way it is....not my fault...I didn't develop their policy...just trying to give you a heads-up...
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  9.    11 Aug 2015 #129
    Join Date : Jul 2015
    Posts : 9,552
    Windows 10 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by WhyMe View Post
    If you do no make your point to them then you'll be losing your retail license. It's just the way it is....not my fault...I didn't develop their policy...
    He will only lose his retail license for Windows 10 upgrade. Not the original retail license it was upgraded from.
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  10.    11 Aug 2015 #130
    Join Date : Aug 2015
    I'm in the ghetto
    Posts : 705
    Windows 10 Pro x64

    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    He will only lose his retail license for Windows 10 upgrade. Not the original retail license it was upgraded from.
    Yup. Either roll back to Win8.1 Retail or purchase a new Win10 stand-alone license will be the available options.
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