Windows 10: how the Metering affects the update process Solved

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  1.    17 Dec 2017 #1

    how the Metering affects the update process


    I seem to be very lucky with this CU as all my machines have now accepted it with no problems at all.
    FYI, my procedure for my important, "production" machine which i always leave until last in case I do have problems, was as follows:

    Reset LAN connection from METERED to UNMETERED
    Semi-Annual Channel
    Feature updates set to deferred for 0 days
    Quality updates set to deferred for 0 days

    CU KB4054517 and also KB4058043 (reliability update for Microsoft Store) and routine updates downloaded and innstalled
    Restarted when requested
    Checked Winver - now on 1709 OS Build 16299.125
    "Check for Updates" - device up to date
    Reset LAN connection as METERED
    Semi-Annual Channel
    Feature updates set deferred for 365 days which how I leave it set for maximum control
    Quality updates set deferred for 30 days which how I leave it set for maximum control
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  2. Bree's Avatar
    Posts : 8,852
    10 Home x64 (1809) (10 Pro on 2nd pc)
       17 Dec 2017 #2

    VBF said: View Post
    FYI, my procedure for my important, "production" machine which i always leave until last in case I do have problems, was as follows:

    Reset LAN connection from METERED to UNMETERED
    ..."Check for Updates" - device up to date
    Reset LAN connection as METERED...
    You may be able to leave out the 'METERED' bits now. I have found that for the first time since 1607 broke it and 1703 change download behaviour for metered connections...
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	update settings 1703.PNG 
Views:	62 
Size:	8.8 KB 
ID:	168575
    ...that checking for updates over metered connections works correctly. In the main it is Flash updates that are deemed as 'required to keep windows running smoothly'. For the rest, including cumulative updates, the 'Download' button appears (that's the bit that never worked properly since 1607).

    Bree said:
    ...In 1607 and then in 1703, with metered connections turned on cumulative updates ignore the 'metered' state and try to download anyway, hanging at 2% until you turn off metering. You never got shown the 'Download' button as you should (but you did get asked when the only update was a Defender definitions update).

    Fall Creators Update 1709 seems to have resolved both those issues...
    Allow Automatic Updates over Metered Connections in Windows 10
      My ComputersSystem Spec

  3.    17 Dec 2017 #3

    Bree said: View Post
    You may be able to leave out the 'METERED' bits now. I have found that for the first time since 1607 broke it and 1703 change download behaviour for metered connections...
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	update settings 1703.PNG 
Views:	62 
Size:	8.8 KB 
ID:	168575
    ...that checking for updates over metered connections works correctly. In the main it is Flash updates that are deemed as 'required to keep windows running smoothly'. For the rest, including cumulative updates, the 'Download' button appears (that's the bit that never worked properly since 1607).

    Allow Automatic Updates over Metered Connections in Windows 10
    @Bree
    I have seen that behaviour, but wasn't entirely sure whether it was just the size of the download that was preventing it when metered. If you look at the link you posted, I've clipped this:




    Therefore the inference I've drawn is that if, in this example, the download was less than 10.00 MB, it would complete whether metered or not.
    Also I've seen it hang at various points, not just the 2% you quoted from the other thread. Then, when metering is disabled, the download continues. Also, I'm not sure what would happen if you rebooted after the hang and some of the updates have completed downloading leaving others at some indeterminate percentage. What do you think?

    However I think that if you leave it set metered, then the download will not complete, full stop.

    I'm trying to prevent updates, from even trying to download and install until I'm ready for them.
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  4. Bree's Avatar
    Posts : 8,852
    10 Home x64 (1809) (10 Pro on 2nd pc)
       17 Dec 2017 #4

    No, it doesn't seem to work like that, size doesn't seem to be a determining factor. As far as I can see, MS mark certain updates on the update servers as 'required for the smooth running of Windows'. These will be downloaded over a metered connection as soon as you check for updates.

    So far, the only updates I have seen delivered this way are Flash security updates and one other, an urgent update for Store. KB4058043 Store reliability improvements for Windows 10 v1709


    Also I've seen it hang at various points, not just the 2% you quoted from the other thread...

    ...I think that if you leave it set metered, then the download will not complete, full stop.
    Not since I've had 1709. All updates, cumulative or otherwise, have completed the full download over a metered connection after clicking 'Download'. Once downloaded you are asked to click the 'Download' button again to begin the install.

    What appears to be a 'hang' isn't actually one, in my experience.

    Bree said:
    ... open Task Manager.

    You'll see that during the 'apparent' hangs there's actually a lot of CPU and 100% disk activity going on. Windows update seems to work by downloading in stages, processing what it has got so far before downloading some more. Windows update also has to work out what parts of the update you have already got, it will only download those parts that are new since your previous update. The percentage count is a bit misleading as it only appears to count how much has been downloaded, not the total work being done behind the scenes.
    Windows Updates Taking Forever to Download
      My ComputersSystem Spec

  5.    17 Dec 2017 #5

    Bree said: View Post
    No, it doesn't seem to work like that, size doesn't seem to be a determining factor. As far as I can see, MS mark certain updates on the update servers as 'required for the smooth running of Windows'. These will be downloaded over a metered connection as soon as you check for updates.

    So far, the only updates I have seen delivered this way are Flash security updates and one other, an urgent update for Store. KB4058043 Store reliability improvements for Windows 10 v1709




    Not since I've had 1709. All updates, cumulative or otherwise, have completed the full download over a metered connection after clicking 'Download'. Once downloaded you are asked to click the 'Download' button again to begin the install.

    What appears to be a 'hang' isn't actually one, in my experience.

    Windows Updates Taking Forever to Download
    @Bree Aren't we contradicting ourselves here?

    On the one hand, we're accepting that only updates "required for the smooth running of Windows" will ignore the fact that the connection is metered and download anyway. All others are blocked including CUs

    But then you said "Not since I've had 1709. All updates, cumulative or otherwise, have completed the full download over a metered connection after clicking 'Download'. Once downloaded you are asked to click the 'Download' button again to begin the install."

    To me, those 2 paragraphs are mutually exclusive
    Or, are you saying that the metering allows the download but prevents the subsequent installation?
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  6. Bree's Avatar
    Posts : 8,852
    10 Home x64 (1809) (10 Pro on 2nd pc)
       17 Dec 2017 #6

    VBF said: View Post
    @Bree Aren't we contradicting ourselves here?

    On the one hand, we're accepting that only updates "required for the smooth running of Windows" will ignore the fact that the connection is metered and download anyway. All others are blocked including CUs

    But then you said "Not since I've had 1709. All updates, cumulative or otherwise, have completed the full download over a metered connection after clicking 'Download'. Once downloaded you are asked to click the 'Download' button again to begin the install."

    To me, those 2 paragraphs are mutually exclusive
    Or, are you saying that the metering allows the download but prevents the subsequent installation?
    This is how my 1709 system works. When I check for updates my metered connection stops all downloads from starting, except those MS has deemed "required for the smooth running of Windows". Those will download but not install yet (shown as 'awaiting install'). All of the others are shown as 'awaiting download'.

    When you click the 'Download' button you are giving permission for all the rest to download over your metered connection.

    After everything has downloaded they are all shown as 'awaiting install'. The 'Download ' button reappears and you have to click it again to start the install(s). Presumably this is because (as I have observed) a little more network activity takes place during the install and you need to give permission for that too.
      My ComputersSystem Spec

  7.    17 Dec 2017 #7

    Bree said: View Post
    This is how my 1709 system works. When I check for updates my metered connection stops all downloads from starting, except those MS has deemed "required for the smooth running of Windows". Those will download but not install yet (shown as 'awaiting install'). All of the others are shown as 'awaiting download'.

    When you click the 'Download' button you are giving permission for all the rest to download over your metered connection.

    After everything has downloaded they are all shown as 'awaiting install'. The 'Download ' button reappears and you have to click it again to start the install(s). Presumably this is because (as I have observed) a little more network activity takes place during the install and you need to give permission for that too.
    @Bree

    OK...from memory, my systems do similar but I clearly haven't concentrated on the same aspects as you. and won't be able to do much until next Patch Tuesday unless another Out of Band CU appears.

    It's that "little more network activity...." that is affected by the Metering status, I believe.

    This particular debate started because in post #77 you responded to my comment in #73 by saying
    "You may be able to leave out the 'METERED' bits now...."

    I took that to mean that you were saying that I might as well leave my connection UNmetered.

    So please correct me if I'm wrong, but having the Network or WiFi connection set metered DOES still give you that extra element of control even if only by preventing that "​little more network activity...."

    From your last comment I believe you think it does and so do I.

    This thread may also be of interest....
    Allow Automatic Updates over Metered Connections in Windows 10
    Last edited by VBF; 17 Dec 2017 at 17:09.
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  8. Bree's Avatar
    Posts : 8,852
    10 Home x64 (1809) (10 Pro on 2nd pc)
       17 Dec 2017 #8

    VBF said: View Post
    I took that to mean that you were saying that I might as well leave my connection Unmetered.
    No, I'm saying that in 1709 for the first time you can leave it as metered and it works as (I presume) MS always intended it to. Nothing apart from a few small update MS have deemed 'necessary' will download until you say so by clicking the 'Download' button.
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  9. Bree's Avatar
    Posts : 8,852
    10 Home x64 (1809) (10 Pro on 2nd pc)
       17 Dec 2017 #9

    VBF said: View Post
    Can you possibly move this to another, new thread...
    @VBF, Now that has been done and it's a new thread of your own, it would help others searching for info if you marked it as 'Solved'.
      My ComputersSystem Spec

  10.    17 Dec 2017 #10

    Originally Posted by VBF
    I took that to mean that you were saying that I might as well leave my connection Unmetered.



    No, I'm saying that in 1709 for the first time you can leave it as metered and it works as (I presume) MS always intended it to. Nothing apart from a few small update MS have deemed 'necessary' will download until you say so by clicking the 'Download' button.

    @Bree
    Yes - I get that now but initially I took the opposite meaning from your words - apologies.

    So, we agree that the best approach is to leave it "metered", and use the Download button to start the download. The only thing remaining is that I'm almost sure that I had to UNmeter to finalise the download and install. Or did I just not wait long enough??

    Bree said: View Post
    @VBF, Now that has been done and it's a new thread of your own, it would help others searching for info if you marked it as 'Solved'.
    This new thread marked as "solved" as per your request - thanks a lot



      My ComputerSystem Spec


 
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