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  1.    03 Nov 2014 #31

    Hi there

    Modern apps (Metro) are a very difficult idea to establish for primarily DESKTOP users -- most people on desktops - even with multi-monitors - tend not to want EVERYTHING (if indeed anything at all) working in FULL SCREEN MODE whereas a lot of people on tablets etc (including phones) are quite used to having their apps in full screen - in fact given some of the small screen sizes of these devices full screen is the only sensible option.

    So you really have two totally different types of users (although a WORK user may want a different profile at home).

    Seems to me a sensible idea to have USER selectable profiles either at logon or be "switchable" during the session so you can revert to Desktop GUI or Modern GUI at will.

    LINUX has had this option for ages of being able to switch the working GUI without needing a Logon - in fact it's easy to switch say from GNOME to KDE, or LXDE or even NONE. The underlying video driver is simply a video daemon / server - used to be called the X-Server --I think it's probably called XORG now and the GUI is just an application running on the video daemon / server.

    That type of solution would please BOTH sets of people --those for whom the modern GUI or apps is of no interest and for those who like it and want to use it.

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  2.    03 Nov 2014 #32
    Join Date : Sep 2014
    Nashville, TN
    Posts : 3,143
    Windows 10 Pro

    Who are you talking to Jimbo?

    And in W10, Metro apps are windowed.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  3.    03 Nov 2014 #33
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    North West Indianapolis, Indiana
    Posts : 450
    Windows 7 Ultimate 64 Bit and VM

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Indianatone View Post
    OK I stand corrected. I was never able to sort it out about six months ago so assumed it was not supported. Also along the way have spent good money on VMWare Workstation and feel it is superior. Is there a tutorial anywhere on how to get a Creative soundcard working?

    I'm confused... you said you "went back to VMware" and that "it's free for home use", so why are you referring to spending good money on it? And why are you now saying you didn't "go back" to it?

    Regardless, you don't have to "get it working" with any specific sound card. If the sound card works on your host, it works in the guest because the guest uses a virtual audio driver. If your sound card is working, then it will work for your guests as well, so long as you enable guest services (in the settings, Integration Services) and use an Enhanced session (View -> Enhanced Session in the menus of the Hyper-V Client Viewer).
    OK I'll put it like this for you,
    I have VMWare Workstation 6,7,8,9 &10. I use it daily. I used the free VMWAre player and liked it so much I bought Workstation. About 6 months ago I decided to put Windows 8.1 on my hard drive for real rather than a VM. I then found out I could not enable Hyper V and Workstation at the same time. I found a work around with a boot option fix Solved Hyper V and VMWare on the same machine
    I fiddled around with it for a while and thought frankly it is nowhere near as good so I went back to Workstation and also mostly back to my Windows 7 drive. So I occasionally boot to 8.1 but not often and I never use hyper V. I just use 7 and Workstation. Workstation is the big brother of VMWare player. Workstation cost $150 approx and Player is free for home users.
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  4.    03 Nov 2014 #34
    Join Date : Sep 2014
    Nashville, TN
    Posts : 3,143
    Windows 10 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Indianatone View Post
    I fiddled around with it for a while and thought frankly it is nowhere near as good so I went back to Workstation and also mostly back to my Windows 7 drive. So I occasionally boot to 8.1 but not often and I never use hyper V. I just use 7 and Workstation. Workstation is the big brother of VMWare player. Workstation cost $150 approx and Player is free for home users.
    Well, they're basically equivalent in nearly all functionality, with a few exceptions (notably "unity"). Other than the specifics of the host/client integration viewer, I don't see much difference. So I don't see how it can be "nowhere near as good", but then I don't care about Unity, and have no use for it. One may have a feature or two that the other doesn't... like Hyper-V has dynamic memory, while VMWare workstation doesn't (ESX does, though).
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  5.    03 Nov 2014 #35

    I've got 9860 on a dual-boot desktop machine. Overall, as others have said, for the desktop it is a very nice improvement over 8.1.

    But a couple things keep me from using it all the time.
    1. Lack of Modern UI IE. - for most of the things I want to do on the web, the modern version is just more of a pleasure to use.
    2. NewsgroupsRT - a usenet client, and currently the only one for the modern ui works until you create a new message or reply to an existing one. When the line wrap happens, the cursor goes to the top left of the message and you have to reposition it. Very awkward and I've missed a couple times when I was firing off a fiery retort!!

    Yeah I know, who goes on usenet these days, right? Well there are some of us that like the free wheeling nature of usenet. Unfortunately outside of NewsgroupsRT, there just isn't a usenet client that is even close to useable on a tablet though there are a few for desktop use.

    If/when W10 is closer to shipping and the issues I perceive as real issues are fixed, I'm ready to make the jump. Right now it doesn't get to play on anything other than my desktop. No SurfacePro, no ASUS T100, both great hybrids, just not so great with W10 at this particular stage of the game.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  6.    03 Nov 2014 #36
    Join Date : Jan 2014
    Posts : 743
    Host W8.0 x64 Guest W10 x86

    The new build isn't stable enough in a VM for me to evaluate it. The desktop disappears and reappears. Explorer Windows either take ages to open or cause the desktop disappearing act.

    9841 is slow but one can tolerate it to surf the web at least.

    Both builds have unstable behavior afa VMTools file copy from host OS etc..
    I hope the next build is a lot more stable and responsive.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  7.    03 Nov 2014 #37
    Join Date : Sep 2014
    Nashville, TN
    Posts : 3,143
    Windows 10 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by MilesAhead View Post
    The new build isn't stable enough in a VM for me to evaluate it. The desktop disappears and reappears. Explorer Windows either take ages to open or cause the desktop disappearing act.

    9841 is slow but one can tolerate it to surf the web at least.

    Both builds have unstable behavior afa VMTools file copy from host OS etc..
    I hope the next build is a lot more stable and responsive.
    That sounds more like VMWare tools is incompatible with the new one... You'll probably need an upgrade to VMWare, since the tools tends to integrate tightly into the OS, like other kinds of system tools (Antivirus, firewalls, filesystem tools, etc..) these are very likely to break when changes are made. This isn't a flaw in the OS, or "instability", it's just a fact of life that these tools are tightly integrated and must be in lockstep with releases that make breaking changes.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  8.    03 Nov 2014 #38
    Join Date : Nov 2013
    Chicagoland
    Posts : 34,682
    Dual boot Windows 10 FCU Pro x 64 & current Insider 10 Pro
    Thread Starter

    Quote Originally Posted by Indianatone View Post
    HG I know you like the Windows 8.1 Modern experience but first and foremost do not forget this is a technical preview…..
    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    I realize this is beta
    I specifically made it a point to place that statement in my OP to make it understood that I understand it’s a beta, yet you remind me not to forget? I know exactly what it is, what’s been added, what’s been left out, what’s set as default, what’s been changed, what’s not turned on, and how to go about installing it. I can pretty much forecast what the “whole experience” will turn out to be come next Spring. The general "template" has been set. There will only be minor changes and fixes.

    …….aimed at business and corporate users.
    I get this feeling it’s aimed at IT pros and especially the Tech press which have a great deal of influence of what business ought to use, then thereafter what the commoner uses. Being a computer novice retired from a construction business and basically just joined in on tech forums, I’m quite surprised just how much influence the press and IT have on OS use and success. I mean what other industries get so much attention other than Hollywood, Finance, Politics, Crime, Sports, and Tech? Isn’t that basically the subjects rendered and we read on a daily basis in the news? All that news has influence in our daily lives, especially how they present the news. And, no. Not all of it is true and I dare say most is biased to sway the reader to think a particular way.

    The modern desktop has been deprecated for this release. Expect to see what you are interested in the consumer preview. This is one half of the experience.
    Well, there is or was no “modern desktop”, but what makes you so sure on this one? Usually it will follow out to the original “template” put forth out of the box for final release. The traditional Start Menu had been deprecated and the traditional desktop played second fiddle to the added Start and Apps Screens in 8 Preview with a few minor changes along the way. 8.1 basically let the user decide who played second fiddle, but continued to leave out the Start Menu to use the Apps screen, desktop menus, or Taskbar.

    Now in TTP we’ve switched over to the “other fiddle” playing first with an added new Start Menu. Modern Store apps now open on the traditional desktop. They may, but I highly doubt that they will change them to open on their own screen. I can see a day when they release the option to boot to the Start Screen, but the Store apps will continue to open on the desktop. The writing is on the wall. This is nothing but a marketing ploy to get “desktop traditionalists” to try or use more Store apps and/or attempt introduce and familiarize the “Modern way”. The new “Modern Start Menu” is basically a mini combination of the Start and Apps screen, which I think is another ploy. Whether those tactics work remains to be seen.

    While I’m at it there’s another reason I noticed about the Start Menu that I remembered I didn’t like besides being so small. Upon boot I go into the menu to look for and to open an item. When I go into the menu again it remains at the same place I found my last item, so now I have to remember where I was at then decide to paddle back or forward to look for another item. Distracting as all hell and breaks any kind of rhythm one has working along > Not very ergonomic. With the start Screen upon returning it’s at least at the beginning and I don’t have to think about it. Do this repeatedly day in and day out, session after session, and tell me which one is better so far as that’s concerned.

    “Consumer preview? Really?! Is this what you think of me and others that used 8.x are? Just “consumers”? I’m here to tell you that although I don’t know or even won’t get know as much technical knowledge as a schooled IT pro, for the last 20 years I’ve been using a computer for business (and consuming) that I do know ergonomics of the machine UI. I pride myself in mastering the keyboard with key combos, proficient in MS Office suite, and know many other programs to have 5, 6, and sometimes 10 open all in the same session.

    Microsoft that developed many an OS which eventually developed Windows 7, the most popular and acclaimed OS of all time that "runs the world economy" is all of a sudden wrong with the release of 8.x? Granted, I'll give you the Ballmer/Sinofsky mistake of 8 rushing it out the door, but not 8.1. Believe it or not, there is another UI that is actually more simplistic for navigating to perform tasks even with a keyboard and mouse when given a fair chance. Furthermore all of a sudden the IT industry knows more about software ergonomics than a brilliant, creative company like Microsoft? I don't think so.

    Now it seems they have to back peddle to keep those costumers that are greatly influenced by the tech press and IT that the companies hire, that, quite frankly, don't understand the new way. Forget me and my opinion. The two most brilliant professionals that are members of these forums get it and that's all I need for my personal conformation.

    Enjoy your new Start Menu, multiple desktops, and all that comes along with 10 upon the end release. At this point I can see it isn't going to be for me. I'll move onward to use and learn 10 and to speak my say in the feedback app. I may change my mind, but I doubt it. So far 8.1 is looking better to me with each new 10 build.

    Edit:

    I'm basically waiting around for them to turn on booting to Start Screen to see how that goes. They definitely have to fix the app snapping on the desktop. I may tolerate the desktop for it's just a screen. If and when they release Office in the Modern I'll really be happy. And as lparsons21 stated, the Modern IE is a must.
    Last edited by HippsieGypsie; 03 Nov 2014 at 18:10.
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  9.    03 Nov 2014 #39
    Join Date : Sep 2014
    Posts : 236
    7, 10TP

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    Hi there

    Modern apps (Metro) are a very difficult idea to establish for primarily DESKTOP users -- most people on desktops - even with multi-monitors - tend not to want EVERYTHING (if indeed anything at all) working in FULL SCREEN MODE whereas a lot of people on tablets etc (including phones) are quite used to having their apps in full screen - in fact given some of the small screen sizes of these devices full screen is the only sensible option.

    So you really have two totally different types of users (although a WORK user may want a different profile at home).

    Seems to me a sensible idea to have USER selectable profiles either at logon or be "switchable" during the session so you can revert to Desktop GUI or Modern GUI at will.

    LINUX has had this option for ages of being able to switch the working GUI without needing a Logon - in fact it's easy to switch say from GNOME to KDE, or LXDE or even NONE. The underlying video driver is simply a video daemon / server - used to be called the X-Server --I think it's probably called XORG now and the GUI is just an application running on the video daemon / server.

    That type of solution would please BOTH sets of people --those for whom the modern GUI or apps is of no interest and for those who like it and want to use it.

    Cheers
    jimbo
    What I don't understand is why should the GUI on a desktop, a tablet and a phone be the same. I don't see the need to have two versions of IE (modern and normal) on the same machine. I am using mostly Pale Moon, but IE is still there. In my opinion the "profile" should be tied to the type of hardware, I don't think I want a desktop GUI on my phone, but I certainly don't want to have a phone GUI on my desktop.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  10.    03 Nov 2014 #40
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    Penns Forrest
    Posts : 3,506
    Win_8.1-Pro, Win_10.1607-Pro, Mint_17.3

    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    ... yet you remind me not to forget
    .....
    ...Isn’t that basically the subjects rendered and we read on a daily basis in the news? All that news has influence in our daily lives, especially how they present the news.
    .....
    ...
    “Consumer preview? Really?! Is this what you think of me and others that used 8.x are? Just “consumers”?
    .....
    ....The two most brilliant professionals that are members of these forums get it and that's all I need for my personal conformation.
    .....
    ...I'm basically waiting around for them to turn on booting to Start Screen to see how that goes.
    Memory can fail and need replacement, or it can act erratically and only selectively return data. Sometimes we elders need to be reminded

    Someone is paying attention, and yet ... you still call it news

    Consumer preview -> Nah, that's just what MS used to refer to pre-releases. Changing the word Consumer to Tech makes us feel 'mo impotent' - actually the TP is an earlier rls and has a faster rls schedule.

    Garsh, thanks - you're pretty swell too - who's the other brilliant professional person?

    Booting to the Start Screen is what got MS in trouble with Win8 - I don't want to return to the "I want my maypo...er start menu" days. In seriousness, MS is working on figuring out the device and setting the options (desktop v Touchscreen Modern). That is a good step, but there are users who want a hybrid solution - humans are still smarter than machines - let us decide.

    Hope you enjoy reading this post as much I enjoyed writing it. All in good fun.

    Bill
    .
      My ComputerSystem Spec

 
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