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  1.    09 Nov 2014 #111
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    Nothern Ohio
    Posts : 596
    Windows 7/64 Professional

    Groze; old software in 16 bit is not Microsoft job or duty to make sure it works in their new operating systems.
    It's the creator of the 16 bit programs job to upgrade their programs to work with the newer operating systems.
    It for what ever reason they don't update their old programs one must find another program that works with newer operating system to meet their needs.
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  2.    09 Nov 2014 #112

    Quote Originally Posted by Layback Bear View Post
    Groze; old software in 16 bit is not Microsoft job or duty to make sure it works in their new operating systems.
    It's the creator of the 16 bit programs job to upgrade their programs to work with the newer operating systems.
    It for what ever reason they don't update their old programs one must find another program that works with newer operating system to meet their needs.
    Hi there.

    If old stuff works consider that as a bonus - otherwise run on old equipment, run as a VM or don't upgrade - clear choices.

    You can't expect for example the 4G (and newer) phones to handle old tin cans connected together with bits of string. Most people when designing newer systems allow for some overlap of legacy applications but support for over 30 year old stuff (which in computing is equivalent to a geological era) can't realistically be expected.

    Cheers
    jimbo
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  3.    09 Nov 2014 #113
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    Penns Forrest
    Posts : 3,506
    Win_8.1-Pro, Win_10.1607-Pro, Mint_17.3

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    ..... It's like when people call copyright infringement "stealing" or "theft". .....
    The FreeDictionary: Intellectual Property

    Quote Originally Posted by Legal Ease ;)
    Cross References
    Intellectual property laws give owners the exclusive right to profit from a work for a particular limited period. For copyrighted material, the exclusive right lasts for 70 years beyond the death of the author. The length of the right can vary for patents, but in most cases it lasts for 20 years. Trademark rights are exclusive for ten years and can be continually renewed for subsequent ten-year periods.

    Intellectual property laws do not fall in the category of Criminal Law, per se. Some copyright laws authorize criminal penalties, but by and large, the body of intellectual property law is concerned with prevention and compensation, both of which are civil matters. This means that the owner, not the government, is responsible for enforcement.

    Intellectual property laws provide owners with the power to enforce their property rights in civil court. They provide for damages when unauthorized use or misuse has occurred. They also provide for injunctions, or court orders, to prevent unauthorized use or misuse.

    The property protected by copyright laws must be fixed in a tangible form. For example, a musician may not claim copyright protection for a melody unless it has been written down or somehow actualized and affixed with a recognizable notation or recorded. A formula or device may not receive patent protection unless it has been presented in whole to the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office; even then, it must satisfy several tests in order to qualify. A symbol may not receive trademark protection unless it has been placed on goods or used in connection with services.
    Legal clarification and amplification of what you said Mr. E
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  4.    09 Nov 2014 #114
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    Nothern Ohio
    Posts : 596
    Windows 7/64 Professional

    Abusing copyrights or patents is still stealing.
    The difference is what laws, regulation and or methods one can be prosecuted under for doing such a act.
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  5.    09 Nov 2014 #115
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Posts : 1,555
    W7 32 bit, Linux Mint Xfce 18 64 bit

    Quote Originally Posted by Layback Bear View Post
    Groze; old software in 16 bit is not Microsoft job or duty to make sure it works in their new operating systems.
    It's the creator of the 16 bit programs job to upgrade their programs to work with the newer operating systems.
    It for what ever reason they don't update their old programs one must find another program that works with newer operating system to meet their needs.
    First, I was giving Indianatone advice on how to keep his old software working. I gave the ways I did it. I bought software some not cheap either. It's not the creators job to update the software. Well I don't see win1-3.?, Windows 95, 98se, Me, 2000, NT, XP, etc-that is being updated. The creator of software could be out of business, couldn't afford to create software that work with the new one. Then you have to buy the updated software, which you already bought before.

    It is these reason that dosbox, wine and virtual machine were started. For example I have this old dos game called "Star Trek the Next Generation- Final Unity" It works fine in windows 7 dos box at full screen. Win 3.1 I also read that works in dos boxes as well.


    Jimbo45
    Actually, most cell phones in the U.S. are backward compatible with older digital technology. The reason not every area has 4g or 3g. I also have an older digital standard cell phone with text & voice that has no other features that works without any issue. You from iceland that might be the difference. I thought you would use analog more in Iceland because of range issues.
    Last edited by groze; 09 Nov 2014 at 11:18.
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  6.    09 Nov 2014 #116

    Quote Originally Posted by toppergraph View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidE View Post
    From what I've read in TF, it seems there are 2 approaches to using the "9860 Update".
    1) Use WTP 9860 as an update to 9841.
    2) Do a clean install of 9860 using the "9860 ESD ISO".

    Depending how each person is using WTP, issues/differences/changes/etc. could be different...
    I think knowing which way a person is using "9860" when posting would help ...

    my 2 cents
    where can i download the 960 iso my machine also updated ok but i would like a copy anyway.
    best regards Topper.
    not to worry created from esd now up to date with clean install.
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  7.    09 Nov 2014 #117
    Join Date : Nov 2013
    Chicagoland
    Posts : 34,784
    Dual boot Windows 10 FCU Pro x 64 & current Insider 10 Pro
    Thread Starter

    It's the old apothegm; What came first? The chicken or the egg? Scientifically we know prokaryotes evolved into sexually reproducing eukaryotes of which we eventually evolved. Therefore the chicken was first.

    What came first? Hardware or software? Well, we were the original hardware and software. We were there first computers that created algorithm(s) via thought of reasoning and reasoning of thought. Then we created a mechanical devices to calculate algorithms, then onto modern electronic computer systems needing an OS.

    The MS boys and girls eventually wrote MS-DOS, which eventually evolved into OSs that we have today. Whether one thinks they have a monopoly or not, business-wise they eventually came up with an OS software life cycle that was economically feasible support-wise for their business with fairness to their customers economically. As hardware evolved, so did their software. We would “freeze in time” if not for the evolution of both > One prodding the other into the future and in somewhat agreement via consortiums/associations.

    I can’t and won’t expect MS or any other company to support ten-year-old software any more than I’d expect a car manufacturer to support a ten-year-old car, however, I would expect more convenient modern and safety features in a new car, of which we get in modern, up-to-date software. It may be the same engine in the car or the same kernel in the OS, but someone has to pay for the upgraded features.

    Perhaps some are not in agreement with and/or paying for the added touch features in the most recent OSs or the direction Windows is headed. Although not MS's sole reason to add it, think of the less-fortunate handicap users. How much do they gain with it. Not only touch, but Cortana and voice commands. I wonder how many more of the handicapped will have the opportunity to work in the business or office environment and/or enjoy computing overall? I think we all need to think less of ourselves and more of others in this industry.

    When we think about it, electronic computing being that it was such an expensive proposition at the commencement is at present time one the more reasonably-priced machines for the amount of work, therefore profit we get out of them. One of the least expensive addictions hobbies also.
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  8.    09 Nov 2014 #118
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    North West Indianapolis, Indiana
    Posts : 450
    Windows 7 Ultimate 64 Bit and VM

    Quote Originally Posted by groze View Post
    Indianatone,

    I don't know if you depend on old software. There are two options. Even though my system 64 bit, I installed the 32 bit os of Windows 7 and had installed 32 bit Windows 10 preview. The reason, I have at lot of old software that runs in 16 bit mode. I bought it, I want to keep it. Just a caution full screen dos programs won't work. I always use dos box, it did have some issue in windows 10, causes the screen to flicker. Next option, you could install ubuntu or one of it spin offs. I use lubuntu with xfce4 destkop installed. I also installed wine using sudo apt-get install wine This is better than using the software manager, it installs everything you need. If you use xfce4 you will need to right click wine application and choose properties to select wine as the default association. Other desktops choices should do it automatically. You can also install dos box in Linux as well. Not all 16 bit or dos software will work with either Windows 7, 10 or linux but most should. 32 bit windows software in linux is potluck.
    No I don't depend on old software. I do have a bunch of old programs which I can run in virtual machines of old discontinued OS. I have several map programs which I use from time to time that cost a lot of money and I don't want to fork out for them again. It is like everyone who has been using PC's for many years I have a lot of software, some of it is gathering dust and every so often I'll get it out and have a play around with it. I have several VM of linux and Windows O.S. back to 3.11 so I can usually get software to work. Heck I even have Amiga emulation software. Only one of my PC's has a 32 bit version of Windows ATM and that is because it has 4GB ram. I am sorting out software storage on my main PC which has 32 gb ram to load up a 32 bit OS and use a ram disc to load games. I just ripped all of mine and the wife's CD to FLAC and need a major restructuring of the Music directories on the PC as they have multiple copies of the same thing at 160, 320 kbs mp3 and FLAC files.
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  9.    09 Nov 2014 #119
    Join Date : Sep 2014
    Nashville, TN
    Posts : 3,143
    Windows 10 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Layback Bear View Post
    Abusing copyrights or patents is still stealing.
    The difference is what laws, regulation and or methods one can be prosecuted under for doing such a act.
    Copyright infringement is illegal, it is not stealing. Copyright is the right to control who uses your intellectual property and in what way. Just like you have the right to control who uses your property and in what way. Trespassing is identical to Copyright infringement in all ways, other than the fact that the owner of the property has no way to physically protect it.

    Theft is when you deprive someone of property. If I take your money, you can no longer use that money. I have stolen it from you. If I copy your money (if such technology were available) then I am not depriving you of that money, thus I am not stealing it. I am counterfeiting it, but that's a different law, and also illegal.

    Infringement is when you deprive someone of a right. When you trespass, you infringe upon the right to protect your property.

    Again, these are very specific terms and have very specific legal meanings. I'm not attempting to say copyright infringement is not bad or not illegal, i'm just saying it's not theft or stealing. Use the right terms.

    By the way, this is not just my opinion. At least one court has upheld it (though not in the US) and an esteemed professor of law at Rutgers has said it as well..

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-04-2...-theft/3963688
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  10.    09 Nov 2014 #120
    Join Date : Sep 2014
    Nashville, TN
    Posts : 3,143
    Windows 10 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by groze View Post
    Actually, most cell phones in the U.S. are backward compatible with older digital technology. The reason not every area has 4g or 3g. I also have an older digital standard cell phone with text & voice that has no other features that works without any issue. You from iceland that might be the difference. I thought you would use analog more in Iceland because of range issues.
    Depends on how old, and which digital technology. If you just mean voice, then there was GSM and CDMA as the two largest technologies. Right now, 1st gen GSM (called 2G) is in the process of being shut down and will be completed within the year.

    1st gen CDMA is largely unsupported by carriers today.

    If you want to talk about Digital Data, then there are several standards, such as GPRS and EDGE, both of which are also in the process of being shut down.
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