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  1. Joined : Sep 2014
    Posts : 2,923
    Windows 10 Pro
       08 Nov 2014 #101

    Indianatone said: View Post
    M$ has been found guilty and convicted (Netscape Browser) and if the Bush Government had not "WON" the election Microsoft would have been punished but they have friends in high places.
    I think you are a little fuzzy about the definitions of "convicted" and "guilty" in the US legal system.

    US v MS was a civil lawsuit, not a criminal trial. One cannot be "found guilty" of anything in a civil trial. Nor can one be "punished" in the sense that you seem to be implying. The only "punishments" possible from a civil trial are fines, restitution, injunctive relief (behavior modification) and possibly forced structural remedies.

    By way of comparison, when OJ Simpson was put on trial for murder, he was acquitted. That trial risked prison or even death as "punishment". He was later sued in civil court by the families of the deceased and lost, and his only "punishment" was financial.

    Part of this is that criminal and civil trials have different standards by which they are judged. Criminal trials are much stricter than civil. Criminal requires that someone be guilty beyond reasonable doubt. Civil a person can be found liable even if there is reasonable doubt.

    This is why in criminal court, someone is "guilty" but in civil court they are found "liable" or "at fault". Someone can be found to be liable because they have been deemed to be guilty of violating a criminal law, but that's not the same thing as having been found guilty in a criminal court, because as I said, the standards for proving this are much lower.

    So no. There was absolutely no possible chance, regardless of administration, that Microsoft would have been "punished" by anything other than some fines, and/or promising not to do it again. The absolute worst possible outcome that could have occurred would be a structural change at Microsoft, which probably would never have happened anyways since spinning off the browser business would have really not done anything to help.

    Sadly, this "myth" of MS "being found guilty" and them being "a convicted monopolist" and other such things are complete fabrications by the internet, and repeated by people who have no idea how the legal system works, or what those terms even mean.
    Last edited by Mystere; 08 Nov 2014 at 15:21.
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  2. Joined : Mar 2014
    Cape Breton Nova Scotia ,Canada
    Posts : 2,917
    insider build 10586.3 win10 pro 64
       08 Nov 2014 #102

    my laptop running win10 build 9860 just prompted me to reboot to install win10 prieview, not sure what the end results will be ,its a 30%
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  3. Joined : Oct 2013
    North West Indianapolis, Indiana
    Posts : 446
    Windows 7 Ultimate 64 Bit and VM
       08 Nov 2014 #103

    Mystere said: View Post
    Indianatone said: View Post
    M$ has been found guilty and convicted (Netscape Browser) and if the Bush Government had not "WON" the election Microsoft would have been punished but they have friends in high places.
    I think you are a little fuzzy about the definitions of "convicted" and "guilty" in the US legal system.

    US v MS was a civil lawsuit, not a criminal trial. One cannot be "found guilty" of anything in a civil trial. Nor can one be "punished" in the sense that you seem to be implying. The only "punishments" possible from a civil trial are fines, restitution, injunctive relief (behavior modification) and possibly forced structural remedies.

    By way of comparison, when OJ Simpson was put on trial for murder, he was acquitted. That trial risked prison or even death as "punishment". He was later sued in civil court by the families of the deceased and lost, and his only "punishment" was financial.

    Part of this is that criminal and civil trials have different standards by which they are judged. Criminal trials are much stricter than civil. Criminal requires that someone be guilty beyond reasonable doubt. Civil a person can be found liable even if there is reasonable doubt.

    This is why in criminal court, someone is "guilty" but in civil court they are found "liable" or "at fault". Someone can be found to be liable because they have been deemed to be guilty of violating a criminal law, but that's not the same thing as having been found guilty in a criminal court, because as I said, the standards for proving this are much lower.

    So no. There was absolutely no possible chance, regardless of administration, that Microsoft would have been "punished" by anything other than some fines, and/or promising not to do it again. The absolute worst possible outcome that could have occurred would be a structural change at Microsoft, which probably would never have happened anyways since spinning off the browser business would have really not done anything to help.

    Sadly, this "myth" of MS "being found guilty" and them being "a convicted monopolist" and other such things are complete fabrications by the internet, and repeated by people who have no idea how the legal system works, or what those terms even mean.
    Well thanks for clearing that up for us Mystere. Nice to have a lawyer on staff. Still I have seen plenty of the damage inflicted by M$ over the years my mind will not be changed, I would not trust them to do the right thing.
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  4. Joined : Oct 2013
    North West Indianapolis, Indiana
    Posts : 446
    Windows 7 Ultimate 64 Bit and VM
       08 Nov 2014 #104

    HippsieGypsie said: View Post
    Didnít get to use Build 9841 but for a few days because my system was down, but what I remember of it I donít see much difference with 9860. Just a lot of bug fixes perhaps?

    Iíll get through the whole development and make my comments in the Feedback app, but so far this whole edition isnít doing it for me and Iíll be staying more on my 8.1 side for now. The general template has been laid out and can pretty much see the writing on the wall. Booting to the Start Screen even if a touch screen is not detected is a biggie and a must. Not sure about the Store apps on the desktop. I prefer it separated, but I understand why MS is doing it this way. It really is back asswards though. Snapping still sucks. Half the combo keys arenít working yet. A real mess to navigate this thing yet.

    Cortana will be a great addition and will be difficult to pass up. Wish they would have added her/it to 8.1 as they did on WP8.1. It along with Modern Office and zPC Settings app I wouldnít really need the desktop or this so-far-crap edition anymore. I could live my years out with 8.1.

    Looking in the Feedback app I saw the comment about Neanderthals that had quite few votes. I had a good chuckle.

    So far as the touch issue > I ran across this the other day: Windows Journal Tutorial - YouTube
    You are correct it is mostly bug fixes. Please do not despair, in the major brief I read somewhere M$ site on this release it has gone backwards in some respects. I am sure you will get your Modern UI in the consumer release slated for early next year (their words not mine). I am sure the UI guys and gals are hard at work making it a smoother transition between the different modes. That was called continuum and they are working on that.
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  5. Joined : Sep 2014
    Posts : 2,923
    Windows 10 Pro
       08 Nov 2014 #105

    Indianatone said: View Post
    Well thanks for clearing that up for us Mystere. Nice to have a lawyer on staff. Still I have seen plenty of the damage inflicted by M$ over the years my mind will not be changed, I would not trust them to do the right thing.
    I made no claim that you should or shouldn't. I have many of the same concerns myself, but I don't feel that perpetuating incorrect, emotion laden myths helps either way.

    It's like when people call copyright infringement "stealing" or "theft". It's not, it's intellectual property infringement. It's more akin to trespassing than it is to theft. I am not claiming it's not wrong, just that it's not what some people claim it to be. It would be like someone claiming I stole their land because I took a shortcut across their property, particularly if they charged a fee to access the property.

    This may seem like nit-picking to you, but trust me.. you wouldn't be so callous if you were being called a thief if you walked on someones lawn. Using the right terminology is important, because these words have specific meanings. Which is why most Microsoft haters prefer to use the incorrect, emotionally charged words (even if they know the difference).. because it riles people up.

    What's funny, is most of those same people will get bent out of shape when someone calls their hard disk "Memory" or their computer their "Microsoft" or calling IE "The internet". Words mean things. I guess I am just one of those people that thinks we shouldn't be using the wrong words for things.

    Guess this is me: http://www.shoeboxblog.com/?p=16935
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  6. Joined : Oct 2014
    Digital Networked Environment!
    Posts : 17
    Windows 10 Technical Preview (10014) x64
       08 Nov 2014 #106

    Build 9879 Spotted on win10.ithome ?
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  7. Joined : Oct 2014
    Digital Networked Environment!
    Posts : 17
    Windows 10 Technical Preview (10014) x64
       08 Nov 2014 #107

    Build 9879 Spotted on win10.ithome ?
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  8. Joined : Oct 2014
    Posts : 1,542
    W7 32 bit, Linux Mint Xfce 18 64 bit
       08 Nov 2014 #108

    Indianatone,

    I don't know if you depend on old software. There are two options. Even though my system 64 bit, I installed the 32 bit os of Windows 7 and had installed 32 bit Windows 10 preview. The reason, I have at lot of old software that runs in 16 bit mode. I bought it, I want to keep it. Just a caution full screen dos programs won't work. I always use dos box, it did have some issue in windows 10, causes the screen to flicker. Next option, you could install ubuntu or one of it spin offs. I use lubuntu with xfce4 destkop installed. I also installed wine using sudo apt-get install wine This is better than using the software manager, it installs everything you need. If you use xfce4 you will need to right click wine application and choose properties to select wine as the default association. Other desktops choices should do it automatically. You can also install dos box in Linux as well. Not all 16 bit or dos software will work with either Windows 7, 10 or linux but most should. 32 bit windows software in linux is potluck.
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  9. Joined : Sep 2014
    Posts : 2,923
    Windows 10 Pro
       08 Nov 2014 #109

    So nice he had to say it twice...
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  10.    09 Nov 2014 #110

    DavidE said: View Post
    From what I've read in TF, it seems there are 2 approaches to using the "9860 Update".
    1) Use WTP 9860 as an update to 9841.
    2) Do a clean install of 9860 using the "9860 ESD ISO".

    Depending how each person is using WTP, issues/differences/changes/etc. could be different...
    I think knowing which way a person is using "9860" when posting would help ...

    my 2 cents
    where can i download the 960 iso my machine also updated ok but i would like a copy anyway.
    best regards Topper.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


 
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