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  1. Joined : Aug 2014
    Australia, Adelaide
    Posts : 1,394
    W7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), LM 18.1 MATE (64 bit), W10IP VM, W10 Home
       07 Nov 2014 #91

    jimbo45 said: View Post
    What's wrong with some people here?. Seems once people sit behind a keyboard all business sense goes completely out of their heads.
    I think you've completely missed the point.
    Corporations don't give a damn about your life or rights.

    Obviously it is in a business' interest to become a monopoly and to then jack prices up a few thousand percentage points.

    Basically you're making the case that "Organised Crime" should not be discriminated against by the government.
    They'll do anything to make a profit (and they are quite good at it).
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  2. Joined : Jan 2014
    Posts : 700
    Host W8.0 x64 Guest W10 x86
       07 Nov 2014 #92

    lehnerus2000 said: View Post
    jimbo45 said: View Post
    What's wrong with some people here?. Seems once people sit behind a keyboard all business sense goes completely out of their heads.
    I think you've completely missed the point.
    Corporations don't give a damn about your life or rights.

    Obviously it is in a business' interest to become a monopoly and to then jack prices up a few thousand percentage points.

    Basically you're making the case that "Organised Crime" should not be discriminated against by the government.
    They'll do anything to make a profit (and they are quite good at it).
    Probably because, unlike government, they are organized.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  3. Joined : Nov 2013
    Chicagoland
    Posts : 20,839
    Tower: W8.1; Laptop: W10 Pro build 10586; Windows Phone 8
       07 Nov 2014 #93

    Indianatone said: View Post
    HG just has it in for me as I am a proud desktop user and don't, won't live in Modern metro land. I have a bunch of software going back 10 years plus and there is no way in hell I am buying that again just to be part of M$ walled garden. Don't you realise what M$ is trying to do here? You have an account, you have it tied to your bank account, they can bill you for what you used to get for free..... You want this app. 10$ GBP 10 Euro. They will give you something at first to try and then bill you for it. Before you know you'll be paying $50 a month just to run your PC. Oh you want a new video card driver..there on special this week......$25 down from $50 but hurry. I am not attacking anyone personally (then proceeds too) but be sure you want to live in Microsoft's fairy dairy land because the idea is to monetize everything. If the Pro or Enterprise version costs $150 and the core version is free, I'll be buying it so I don't live on MS Farmville. You may think I am nuts but this is exactly the plan they have in mind. Pay up or get a disabled OS.
    This is simply not true. I admire you and others for your passion of your profession and your concern > Hear your concerns loud and clear so far as the MS capital end of it goes and have for over 2 years on 8F. It seems that people have it out for us because we foresee the use of and like the Modern RT. What gets me is that I sense out of you and other IT pros is that you think Win32 desktop environment is the best, therefore the only way while using the excuse that “MS is forcing me” and "are going to monetize everything". We are simply stating that I think MS has developed a better way of computing with a new UI when given a fair chance. Modern is simply not just a consumer UI environment, but also aimed at enterprise as well. Furthermore, I see no reason why they couldn’t coexist as they do in 8.1. I’ll give you Ballmer/Sinofski mistake of 8 by forcing you to the Start Screen, but not 8.1 where one can configure to boot to the desktop so to run your 10-year-old software if compatible. Compatibility Mode still exists in 8.x so far as I last checked. If it's too old, it's simply too old.

    Speaking of which > Is your hardware 10 years old? 10-year-old software? Let’s be honest. While approaching retirement a few years ago I was hoping my 12-year-old Office 2000 Pro would have loaded onto W8 while knowing all along it was time to upgrade to gain upgraded/new features and software/OS compatibility. Tried it, but no cigar. Thankfully someone gave me license for 2013 Pro full native edition. I might have gotten by without it in retirement, but it is sure nice to have, especially with online editing/creating features. I write some posts in Word so to have in OneDrive for my Lumia 1520 which came with Office phone edition. We all know that software needs to be upgraded sooner or later.

    Personally MS saved me a ton of money by keeping 8.x slim enough to be able to load it on my then six-year-old Acer. Where I actually got lucky was with the correct CPU. TTP loaded without a hitch also. I would imagine thousands, no > millions of other systems too. All this at a time when desktop PC sales were slumping. I often wonder if a “bigger 7” would have loaded so far as PC resources go.

    I think your fear of MS planning to “monetize everything” is falsely unwarranted and insubstantial. Just as past OSs, it looks like W10 will be a native OS. Sure, they may introduce an online/thin client OS and offer it or W10 with a subscription model like Office 365, but that may work out better for some monetarily, especially small to midsize companies and/or multi device households. Does that sound like MS is squashing for more money? Sounds like less to help out monetarily if you ask me.

    When software, whether it’s consumption or production or whether produced by MS or others gets ported to the Modern, will one have to purchase it through the MS Store? Most likely. I see nothing wrong with this tactic of MS becoming a “middleman” nor do I see they will gouge customers. Gouging has not been a tactic of theirs in the past that I can see, unless you can provide reference otherwise. Will it drive the price of software up? Most likely, but let’s look at the positive aspects of it also. Just like your driver example as you stated in your last post, let’s look at quality. Seems to me that MS started driver verification because of driver failure, which drove up the cost of MS’s service/help department. Approximately 90% of system failure is due to driver failure, yet users want to blame the OS, so therefore who do they contact? > MS. “My printer won’t print!” > “I don’t hear any sound!” > “My monitor keeps blinking!” > Therefore by verifying driver software I would imagine MS service/help calls and costs were dramatically cut. Probably not so much Google, but surely Apple verifies software for the quality aspect of it, but yet no one complains they sell via their store and becoming more and more so all the time.

    Not only did we get the usual Win32 apps within the Accessories folder, we got a Modern Email, Calendar, Photos, Maps, Weather, Reader/PDF Reader, Windows Phone, and a slew of other apps all for free. And if we pay for an app, which are very reasonably priced, we get to load it on multiple devices to keep for a life time automatically to follow along with every new OS on any device via MS free services of a free MS account.

    Side-loading of custom-tailored Modern apps to fit a particular business model may be way economically better for businesses in the long run so far as development, service, and point of sale costs. Yes, one needs to buy a license for the privilege, but in the end it may be a less-costly and allow for more sales. “Oh! You mean I can custom tailor my patient sign-in touch screen to fit my particular profession?” > “Oh! You mean I can custom tailor my touch cash register/station screen to fit my particular business?” There are endless applications for this as Jimbo has pointed out. BTW, besides a Windows 7 and 8.x systems, I have never seen a desktop on a touch screen > Not at an ATM, internet jukebox, cash register, train depot, airport, etc.

    Is Windows becoming more and more Internet/online-orientated/centric? Yes. Welcome to the “Modern” age. I think one should accept it for the use of it or simply turn it off within the OS, unplug the Ethernet cable, or turn off the WiFi. I realize some claim that it cannot be totally turned off, but can’t say exactly what data is being transmitted. I have yet to look into that myself.

    Bottom line > Until you, me, or others here have a degree in Ergonomics and/or see an extensive scientific study of OS ergonomics so far as navigation and/or performing tasks, we’re all basically blowing a lot of hot air with our opinions. I’ve been scouring the Net every now and then for the past year on the subject even within MS, Apple, And Google sites on the subject of OS ergonomics to no avail. Workstations, yes, but not the OS itself, unless I'm searching under the wrong topic. It was huge in my industry and find it surprising that it’s not in computing. With ergonomics I get bits and pieces as seen here:

    ERGONOMICS AND HUMAN WORK SYSTEMS Ppt Presentation

    Ergonomic: What does it Mean?

    HG I'm glad you got your PC sorted out. Finally got a PSU that did not fail.
    Thank you and thanks for your help on that. Most kind of you to do so.
    Last edited by HippsieGypsie; 07 Nov 2014 at 13:48.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  4. Joined : Oct 2013
    North West Indianapolis, Indiana
    Posts : 446
    Windows 7 Ultimate 64 Bit and VM
       07 Nov 2014 #94

    Hardware ranges from a few weeks old to a scanner with SSCI interface Agfa Snapscan 600 from 1998 and everything in between (like most of us). When you have 90% + of the desktop computer market (a monopoly by any other name) you have a duty (whether you like it or not) to support older hardware and software as much as practicable. Apple don't have to as they make the hardware to their own specs and everyone buying know what they are letting themselves in for. After about 2 to 4 years it is deemed obsolete and support is removed. 10 years is what you get from M$ and with compatibility modes, fixes and workarounds most but not all software can be made to work. I honestly don't see developers making Modern Metro apps at the moment. Most have given up and are just doing Win32 /64 and the apple or google app stores. The Modern UI is a dead end that will not get the 3rd party support it might have if it had been marketed properly.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5.    07 Nov 2014 #95

    lehnerus2000 said: View Post
    jimbo45 said: View Post
    What's wrong with some people here?. Seems once people sit behind a keyboard all business sense goes completely out of their heads.
    I think you've completely missed the point.
    Corporations don't give a damn about your life or rights.

    Obviously it is in a business' interest to become a monopoly and to then jack prices up a few thousand percentage points.

    Basically you're making the case that "Organised Crime" should not be discriminated against by the government.
    They'll do anything to make a profit (and they are quite good at it).
    Hi there

    I think you perhaps should leave that Dalek like avatar and come and inhabit the REAL world - Nothing wrong in corporations making money -- and who SPENDS the money !! and where will you get your pension from if these corporations DON'T make money.

    Most of what I've bought from Ms in the past has worked stellarly for me --I'm still creating VINYL records for people and using XP -- how many years ago was that OS released.

    Ms (under Bill Gates) has also via the Gates foundation probably given more money to charity / needy people than the combined economies of the USA, the entire EU, Australia, the U.N and NZ put together.

    Big business isn't always horrible - even if it seems to be. Many ordinary people hold stock in Ms too.

    Ms didn't go to war in Iraq, invent and deploy Nuclear weapons, invent Biological weapons, create religions who kill, murder and maim "non believers" or thousands of other things that "Governments" allegedly in the name of "The People" do.

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  6. Joined : Oct 2013
    North West Indianapolis, Indiana
    Posts : 446
    Windows 7 Ultimate 64 Bit and VM
       07 Nov 2014 #96

    jimbo45 said: View Post
    lehnerus2000 said: View Post
    jimbo45 said: View Post
    What's wrong with some people here?. Seems once people sit behind a keyboard all business sense goes completely out of their heads.
    I think you've completely missed the point.
    Corporations don't give a damn about your life or rights.

    Obviously it is in a business' interest to become a monopoly and to then jack prices up a few thousand percentage points.

    Basically you're making the case that "Organised Crime" should not be discriminated against by the government.
    They'll do anything to make a profit (and they are quite good at it).
    Hi there

    I think you perhaps should leave that Dalek like avatar and come and inhabit the REAL world - Nothing wrong in corporations making money -- and who SPENDS the money !! and where will you get your pension from if these corporations DON'T make money.

    Most of what I've bought from Ms in the past has worked stellarly for me --I'm still creating VINYL records for people and using XP -- how many years ago was that OS released.

    Ms (under Bill Gates) has also via the Gates foundation probably given more money to charity / needy people than the combined economies of the USA, the entire EU, Australia, the U.N and NZ put together.

    Big business isn't always horrible - even if it seems to be. Many ordinary people hold stock in Ms too.

    Ms didn't go to war in Iraq, invent and deploy Nuclear weapons, invent Biological weapons, create religions who kill, murder and maim "non believers" or thousands of other things that "Governments" allegedly in the name of "The People" do.

    Cheers
    jimbo
    M$ has been found guilty and convicted (Netscape Browser) and if the Bush Government had not "WON" the election Microsoft would have been punished but they have friends in high places.
    United States v. Microsoft Corp. - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
    Microsoft litigation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Still the EU and the South Koreans had a good go.
    Corporations are not people (even though they seem to be in the USA).
    Jimbo, I know you have been around for a while like me but you seem to have forgotten how M$ would buy up the competition and close them down, or just bring out a free version of a program (browser for example) and cause the shareware version to fail. In a way they have done nothing but steal other companies ideas and many brilliant programmers ideas. It is well documented. In what other industry is a player allowed such a free ride? And we have to pay for the software. Yes we could use a mac but in some ways (most) Apple is worse. Linux is not the answer. It is a shame someone else does not make a Windows clone.
    Anyhow getting back to Windows 10, maybe M$ can redeem themselves. Make a tablet OS for low tablets that would use the Modern UI and Apps in a secure system, make a hybrid OS that wanders back and forth between whichever UI the user needs or the device is capable off and finally (just for me and the other 90% of desktop users) a desktop system which is a worthy successor to 7.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  7. Joined : Aug 2014
    Australia, Adelaide
    Posts : 1,394
    W7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), LM 18.1 MATE (64 bit), W10IP VM, W10 Home
       07 Nov 2014 #97

    jimbo45 said: View Post
    I think you perhaps should leave that Dalek like avatar and come and inhabit the REAL world - Nothing wrong in corporations making money -- and who SPENDS the money !! and where will you get your pension from if these corporations DON'T make money.
    At no time have I stated that businesses shouldn't be allowed to make a profit.

    You obviously didn't see the report this week showing that the MegaCorporations (like Amazon, Apple, Pepsi, IKEA, etc.) pay a few cents in the dollar tax due to their use of dodgy tax loopholes and tax havens (e.g. Luxemburg).

    They even dodged taxes in the tax haven itself!
    Pepsi, IKEA, FedEx and 340 other international companies have secured secret deals from Luxembourg, allowing many of them to slash their global tax bills while maintaining little presence in the tiny European duchy, leaked documents show.
    Pepsi, IKEA, AIG, Coach, Deutsche Bank, Abbott Laboratories and nearly 340 other companies have secured secret deals from Luxembourg that allowed many of them to slash their global tax bills.

    PricewaterhouseCoopers has helped multinational companies obtain at least 548 tax rulings in Luxembourg from 2002 to 2010. These legal secret deals feature complex financial structures designed to create drastic tax reductions. The rulings provide written assurance that companies’ tax-saving plans will be viewed favorably by Luxembourg authorities.

    Companies have channeled hundreds of billions of dollars through Luxembourg and saved billions of dollars in taxes. Some firms have enjoyed effective tax rates of less than 1 percent on the profits they’ve shuffled into Luxembourg.

    Many of the tax deals exploited international tax mismatches that allowed companies to avoid taxes both in Luxembourg and elsewhere through the use of so-called hybrid loans.

    In many cases Luxembourg subsidiaries handling hundreds of millions of dollars in business maintain little presence and conduct little economic activity in Luxembourg. One popular address – 5, rue Guillaume Kroll – is home to more than 1,600 companies.

    It's interesting how stock market speculators have rushed out to defend this practice.

    Their response is, "I'm making s***loads of money, so the rest of you can go to h***."

    Note:

    Microsoft wasn't mentioned as I far as I can tell.

    A few months ago there was a report (here in Australia) that the top 200 companies dodged $80B in tax payments over the last decade.

    So my pension (if the pension even exists when I "retire") will actually be paid from income tax collected from ordinary people's wages.

    MilesAhead said: View Post
    Probably because, unlike government, they are organized.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  8. Joined : Oct 2013
    Penns Forrest
    Posts : 3,506
    Win_8.1-Pro, Win_10.1607-Pro, Mint_17.3
       08 Nov 2014 #98

    Are we standing too close to the edge? (political discussions)

    I think the discussion is great, but it might fall outside of the Forum rules.

    Let's get back on topic: Your Build 9860 Evaluation

    I've put Win10 evaluation on the back burner for now. Build 9860 was one of those releases I didn't want to spend too much time evaluating - see if old bugs were fixed, new ones introduced while checking fixes, and look at new features.

    As time went on and I read 9860 feedback from members, it soon became clear that 9860 was a sideways step.

    Waiting for the next release to start the tests all over and look for new feats.

    Bill
    .
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  9. Joined : Nov 2013
    Chicagoland
    Posts : 20,839
    Tower: W8.1; Laptop: W10 Pro build 10586; Windows Phone 8
       08 Nov 2014 #99

    Slartybart said: View Post
    HippsieGypsie said: View Post
    .....
    That just may happen by 11 when most of the, ahem, desktoppers die off.
    .....
    I hope not, otherwise we’d be wondering who’s writing your posts.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  10. Joined : Nov 2013
    Chicagoland
    Posts : 20,839
    Tower: W8.1; Laptop: W10 Pro build 10586; Windows Phone 8
       08 Nov 2014 #100

    Didn’t get to use Build 9841 but for a few days because my system was down, but what I remember of it I don’t see much difference with 9860. Just a lot of bug fixes perhaps?

    I’ll get through the whole development and make my comments in the Feedback app, but so far this whole edition isn’t doing it for me and I’ll be staying more on my 8.1 side for now. The general template has been laid out and can pretty much see the writing on the wall. Booting to the Start Screen even if a touch screen is not detected is a biggie and a must. Not sure about the Store apps on the desktop. I prefer it separated, but I understand why MS is doing it this way. It really is back asswards though. Snapping still sucks. Half the combo keys aren’t working yet. A real mess to navigate this thing yet.

    Cortana will be a great addition and will be difficult to pass up. Wish they would have added her/it to 8.1 as they did on WP8.1. It along with Modern Office and zPC Settings app I wouldn’t really need the desktop or this so-far-crap edition anymore. I could live my years out with 8.1.

    Looking in the Feedback app I saw the comment about Neanderthals that had quite few votes. I had a good chuckle.

    So far as the touch issue > I ran across this the other day: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xk12ZDC5ITM
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


 
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