Windows 10: When FCC Kills Net Neutrality, Here's What Internet Could Look Like

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  1. Posts : 2,115
    Windows 10 Pro x64 FCU - XP/Vista/Win7/Win8.1 in VM for testing
       18 Dec 2017 #101

    Anak said: View Post
    Go to this site and check: https://badcomments.attorneygeneral.gov/ Input your name and If your name is there and you didn't make a comment you can also report it if you like.
    I checked and neither my wife or I were included.
    Thats one thing I don't need to worry about ( I HOPE )
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  2.    18 Dec 2017 #102

    HippsieGypsie said: View Post
    Lots of good comments with viewpoints, articles with videos posted, legal paper links posted, and the like. By all means, I don’t mean to take away anyone’s thunder, but xips’s is the best IMO to chronical the situation mostly because it sums up the deregulation and competition (free enterprise) subjects. I’d like to respond to all posts, but It would take up too much paper. Please bear with me. I’ll try to keep this as short as possible.



    I hear you on this one. I only have a choice between two ISPs > AT&Bleed or Comcrap. In comparing “packages” I went with AT&Bleed ADSL at the best value with the lowest price, but at times I can’t open some web pages and wonder if they’re being blocked or videos on some sites that lag for throttling. Difficult to say.



    Except for energy utilities, but with all the rest they gave them too much free reign. But if you mean oil/gas companies, then yes. They handed us over as slaves to OPEC IMO.





    Been doing a lot of research and reading on this subject to include posts/viewpoints here, articles, and filed legal papers of both stances. I’m not a lawyer, but one can get the gist of what is going on within the legal court filings, FCC filings/rulings, and court hearings media coverage. I’m not an expert on this subject by any means, but if one does enough reading one can see the stance and complaints of both sides. It seems there’s always been a struggle between political ideologies of “free market” vs “regulated market”. IOW, it seems difficult to regulate anything and yet keep fair competition offering consumers fair choices initiating fair prices within a free capitalistic society.

    Anyone can look up federal or state law by means of its websites, but this Wikipedia article sums up laws that govern communications within the U.S.: Communications Act of 1934 - Wikipedia. Please note that the Telecommunications Act of 1996 is linked there. Since the introduction of the Internet and our ever-evolving tech new laws and regulations were put into place that is crucial info.

    In a nutshell, Article Two of the FCC ruling by way of congressional authority “classified broadband as a Title II communication service with providers being "common carriers", not "information providers". IOW, an ISP as a “data utility” with added regulation. This basically means ISPs cannot favor one customer over another, charge one customer more than the other, throttle speed (flow) of one over the other, nor block data (flow) of any site. Much like the electric utilities companies are regulated to meet certain AC voltage and cycle rate standards, a natural gas company to maintain certain regulated pressure and flow standards, water utilities with regulated standards, and so on.

    By law and regulation, all those utility companies need to offer everyone their services without prejudice, cannot stop a service (flow) except for nonpayment, and all charge their same price to all customers, although here in the U.S. in some areas we can choose who we buy electricity, natural gas, and water from even though a certain company owns the infrastructure. A company then only charges a delivery fee for use of the infrastructure. In some instances, we can add supply to those infrastructures for capital profit. e.g. Feed an electrical grid with electricity that we produce. Those added choices are meant to stimulate competition to keep prices at a minimum and stimulate startups.

    Now that Article Two has been voted out/down due to the new Trump administration’s FCC appointees with their political ideology, ISPs once again have legal rights to possibly block sites (flow), throttle speed (flow), charge more to one than the other, or not offer some their services at all. They have indeed conducted all or some of these in the past. That’s why all the lawsuits that eventually lead up to the introduction of Article Two under the Obama administration’s FCC appointees with their political ideology. Another possibility because time has passed is that they may offer “site bundles” just as TV stations are “bundled” via levels of service as some have mentioned. Other marketing techniques that they can invent/introduce as well. It also stifles startup companies.

    With all that said, this is what I think needs to happen. Congress needs to take the bull by the horns and restructure the whole thing, for we are following old law that to me and others does not apply to our modern tech and gives too much free reign to the FCC to decide what rules are applied or not applied, which in turn gives free reign to big corps. IOW the Inet is becoming our primary means of communication, not just the telephone, whether it be cellular or landline. Just as I’m communicating with other users via this post.

    Problem is with what’s been shaking in DC lately who in the hey can we trust to do that as “trusted servants”? To many lawyers that hold office instead of other professions or commoners. Most politicians have a vested interest in one or more corporations, so they’ll pass laws or make/eliminate rules along those lines. Welcome the United States of America, Inc.

    After all this research, I still hold to When FCC Kills Net Neutrality, Here's What Internet Could Look Like - Page 5 - Windows 10 Forums. Simply dumb data-flow pipes and nothing more. Just as a dumb natural gas line, water pipe, or electrical wire. They don’t need to input their data into the system other than to maintain that system.

    So far as “Netflix using up 30% of the bandwidth”. That’s ISPs blowing smoke. They simply didn’t invest in updating infrastructure for the bandwidth. We the consumers are paying the MBs of data from and to any “information providers” service company just as any “information providers” service company pays for their MBs to and from our systems. This is no different than an electrical utility company upgrading their infrastructure to handle more demand because of more consumers are using AC pumps just as an example. If it cost we the consumers more per MB, KW, BTU, or gallons to upgrade any infrastructure, then so be it. There had better be a reasonable justification for it, though.

    Last, but not least, this isn’t one of our biggest problems. Look into the most illegal piece of crap Federal Reserve System. Pulled the wool over the eyes of most American sheeples for many years. Those that supposedly serve us serve their money god. Doesn’t look like its’s going well for us so far. $20 + trillion of national debt and growing.
    Very well put but in a nutshell none of this happened before 2015 and The US Government is overloaded with way too many regulations as is. None of this is going to happen, any ISP is a pipeline to the Net, The Government is Full of too many Lawyers, that is one reason a Businessman was elected.
      My ComputerSystem Spec


  3. Posts : 38,043
    Dual boot Windows 10 FCU Pro x 64 & current Insider 10 Pro
    Thread Starter
       18 Dec 2017 #103

    Anak said: View Post
    Go to this site and check: https://badcomments.attorneygeneral.gov/ Input your name and If your name is there and you didn't make a comment you can also report it if you like.

    I checked and neither my wife or I were included.
    Thanks for that, Anak. I checked mine. It was there.
      My ComputersSystem Spec


  4. Posts : 38,043
    Dual boot Windows 10 FCU Pro x 64 & current Insider 10 Pro
    Thread Starter
       18 Dec 2017 #104

    Josey Wales said: View Post
    Very well put but in a nutshell none of this happened before 2015
    What didn't happen before 2015?

    and The US Government is overloaded with way too many regulations as is.
    I agree about too many, but we live in a policed state as our founding fathers set it up to be, but with certain rights as a citizen. The government by means of three branches is set up to protect we the citizens’ from harm and our best interests.

    None of this is going to happen
    None of what is not going to happen?

    any ISP is a pipeline to the Net
    Yes, any ISP is. Just not a dumb one.

    The Government is Full of too many Lawyers, that is one reason a Businessman was elected.
    I couldn’t agree more.
      My ComputersSystem Spec

  5.    18 Dec 2017 #105

    HippsieGypsie said: View Post
    What didn't happen before 2015?



    I agree about too many, but we live in a policed state as our founding fathers set it up to be, but with certain rights as a citizen. The government by means of three branches is set up to protect we the citizens’ from harm and our best interests.



    None of what is not going to happen?



    Yes, any ISP is. Just not a dumb one.



    I couldn’t agree more.
    What didn't happen before 2015?
    All of the stuff people are saying is going to happen now. The Net Neutrality Law did not go into effect till 2015.
      My ComputerSystem Spec


  6. Posts : 38,043
    Dual boot Windows 10 FCU Pro x 64 & current Insider 10 Pro
    Thread Starter
       18 Dec 2017 #106

    Josey Wales said: View Post
    All of the stuff people are saying is going to happen now. The Net Neutrality Law did not go into effect till 2015.
    Josey, did you read any of the articles or watch any of the videos posted throughout this thread? If you did you should’ve seen that the reason the FFC introduced Article II (more regulation) was in answer to all the lawsuits entered against the ISPs for their “dirty deeds” against other companies. If they did it once, they’ll do it again. They will start to control the Internet in other ways. Mark my words.

    What others and I are saying is that the old Communications Acts (laws) need to be abandoned and new legislation needs to be introduced to overhaul the whole system.
      My ComputersSystem Spec


  7. Posts : 976
    Windows 7/64 Professional
       18 Dec 2017 #107

    As far as I can tell the 2015 regulation fixed a problem we didn't have.
    From behind my keyboard things are the same with and without regulation.
    So I really don't understand what all the hoopla is about.

    I don't believe anybody posted that all regulations are bad. Some are needed of course.

    It's nice to know in some places we regulate public restrooms.. Not by the health department.
    NO, NO. By the courts. Whether you are male or female or your not sure what you are you can just pick which public restroom you use. So if your little sister is using the ladies room and a big dude joins her in the ladies room, it's okay. He got rights.

    No I'm not making this up. People went to federal court over this in the good old U.S. of A.
    It was a big story on T.V. and radio for about 2 weeks.

    I personally didn't know we had a restroom problem but some lawyer filed suite wanting to give the right to everybody to pick what public restroom they wanted to use no mater what their gender was or if the person wasn't quite sure what gender they was.

    Sometimes the government just pokes their nose into things they shouldn't.


    Jack
      My ComputersSystem Spec


  8. Posts : 284
    10 Home 64-bit | v1709 | Build -16299.248
       18 Dec 2017 #108

    Barman58 said: View Post
    Thats one thing I don't need to worry about ( I HOPE )
    Let's hope not but then again one can never tell where these bots scrape their info from.

    HippsieGypsie said: View Post
    Thanks for that, Anak. I checked mine. It was there.
    You're welcome; By your doing or others? If others file the complaint.

    Josey, I'm not sure if this has been posted earlier, but I believe this is what HG is talking about:
    The Federal Communications Commission docket for its repeal of net neutrality rules is missing something: more than 50,000 complaints that Internet customers have filed against their ISPs since the rules took effect in 2015.

    https://50,000 net neutrality complaints were excluded from FCC’s repeal docket | arstechnica.com
    Jack; That's because it was caught before it got out of hand.
      My ComputersSystem Spec


  9. Posts : 38,043
    Dual boot Windows 10 FCU Pro x 64 & current Insider 10 Pro
    Thread Starter
       18 Dec 2017 #109

    Anak said: View Post
    You're welcome; By your doing or others? If others file the complaint.
    By my doing. I filed a comment to keep Article II aka keep NN. However, I see it as picking lesser of two evils for now. Like I said, the whole system needs to be overhauled IMO.
      My ComputersSystem Spec


  10. Posts : 284
    10 Home 64-bit | v1709 | Build -16299.248
       18 Dec 2017 #110

    It's not the only area that needs overhauled...
      My ComputersSystem Spec


 
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