Windows 10: When FCC Kills Net Neutrality, Here's What Internet Could Look Like

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  1. ThrashZone's Avatar
    Posts : 3,826
    3-Win-7Prox64 2-Win10Prox64
       17 Dec 2017 #90

    Winuser said: View Post
    My thoughts on this is If they are not planning any changes, why did they fight to have Net Neutrality reversed?
    Hi,
    Because they had to invent more red tape years ago and "fix" a non issue :)
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  2. Layback Bear's Avatar
    Posts : 994
    Windows 7/64 Professional
       17 Dec 2017 #91

    I'm in belief government doesn't employ the best people to make such decision.

    I have more faith in competition between companies to bring the best to consumers.

    The government already has are money. (Taxes)
    Companies want are money and willing work for it. They will fight each other to get our money.
    Normally the customer win when companies compete for our money.


    Jack
      My ComputersSystem Spec

  3. ThrashZone's Avatar
    Posts : 3,826
    3-Win-7Prox64 2-Win10Prox64
       17 Dec 2017 #92

    Hi,
    Yep any "throttling" should be a case by case basis via get a lawyer and prove it :)

    My heart really does bleed for torrent users it really does
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  4. SIW2's Avatar
    Posts : 491
    trying to install win10
       17 Dec 2017 #93

    classify ISPs as a utility
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  5. lehnerus2000's Avatar
    Posts : 1,772
    W7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), LM 18.3 MATE (64 bit), W10 Home 1703 (64 bit), W10 Pro 1703 (64 bit) VM
       17 Dec 2017 #94

    Since Government Regulation is so bad lets get rid of all the safety regulations on buildings, cars, food, etc. too.
    After all complying with those also reduces business profits.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  6.    17 Dec 2017 #95

    Layback Bear said: View Post
    I'm in belief government doesn't employ the best people to make such decision.

    I have more faith in competition between companies to bring the best to consumers.

    The government already has are money. (Taxes)
    Companies want are money and willing work for it. They will fight each other to get our money.
    Normally the customer win when companies compete for our money.


    Jack
    If they can eliminate or even reduce the competition what going to stop them from digging deeper into our pockets?
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  7. Anak's Avatar
    Posts : 429
    10 Home 64-bit | v1803 | Build -17134.345
       17 Dec 2017 #96

    If they can eliminate or even reduce the competition what going to stop them from digging deeper into our pockets?
    Our right to vote, and the almighty dollar.

    Persons like you and me biting the bullet and saying enough is enough and kicking them out of our house-holds, but that will never happen and we will continue to act like sheeple, we have become so reliant on "conveniences" we are reluctant to change.

    First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Socialist.

    Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

    Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Jew.

    Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

    Martin Niemöller
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  8. Posts : 37,567
    Dual boot Windows 10 FCU Pro x 64 & current Insider 10 Pro
    Thread Starter
       18 Dec 2017 #97

    Lots of good comments with viewpoints, articles with videos posted, legal paper links posted, and the like. By all means, I don’t mean to take away anyone’s thunder, but xips’s is the best IMO to chronical the situation mostly because it sums up the deregulation and competition (free enterprise) subjects. I’d like to respond to all posts, but It would take up too much paper. Please bear with me. I’ll try to keep this as short as possible.

    xips said: View Post
    Pre-NN, I paid at&t for u-verse 50/5 service. My netflix subscription was rendered useless until netflix paid off at&t. They also throttled every wireless devices @ 50-70% of the bandwidth I was paying for. I have a long list of BS at&t pulled and imo they are criminal and should burn eternally. I've since moved to the only competitor available in my area with same services at half the at&t cost and am satisfied with the new service. With my at&t experience, I am in complete support of NN.
    I hear you on this one. I only have a choice between two ISPs > AT&Bleed or Comcrap. In comparing “packages” I went with AT&Bleed ADSL at the best value with the lowest price, but at times I can’t open some web pages and wonder if they’re being blocked or videos on some sites that lag for throttling. Difficult to say.

    Historically, the govt deregulated Savings & Loan banking rules, the airline industry, energy utilities, and Wall St finance all which resulted in a cost of thousands of lives and trillions of dollars. I prefer a responsible public servants.
    Except for energy utilities, but with all the rest they gave them too much free reign. But if you mean oil/gas companies, then yes. They handed us over as slaves to OPEC IMO.

    Send in the clowns...


    Been doing a lot of research and reading on this subject to include posts/viewpoints here, articles, and filed legal papers of both stances. I’m not a lawyer, but one can get the gist of what is going on within the legal court filings, FCC filings/rulings, and court hearings media coverage. I’m not an expert on this subject by any means, but if one does enough reading one can see the stance and complaints of both sides. It seems there’s always been a struggle between political ideologies of “free market” vs “regulated market”. IOW, it seems difficult to regulate anything and yet keep fair competition offering consumers fair choices initiating fair prices within a free capitalistic society.

    Anyone can look up federal or state law by means of its websites, but this Wikipedia article sums up laws that govern communications within the U.S.: Communications Act of 1934 - Wikipedia. Please note that the Telecommunications Act of 1996 is linked there. Since the introduction of the Internet and our ever-evolving tech new laws and regulations were put into place that is crucial info.

    In a nutshell, Article Two of the FCC ruling by way of congressional authority “classified broadband as a Title II communication service with providers being "common carriers", not "information providers". IOW, an ISP as a “data utility” with added regulation. This basically means ISPs cannot favor one customer over another, charge one customer more than the other, throttle speed (flow) of one over the other, nor block data (flow) of any site. Much like the electric utilities companies are regulated to meet certain AC voltage and cycle rate standards, a natural gas company to maintain certain regulated pressure and flow standards, water utilities with regulated standards, and so on.

    By law and regulation, all those utility companies need to offer everyone their services without prejudice, cannot stop a service (flow) except for nonpayment, and all charge their same price to all customers, although here in the U.S. in some areas we can choose who we buy electricity, natural gas, and water from even though a certain company owns the infrastructure. A company then only charges a delivery fee for use of the infrastructure. In some instances, we can add supply to those infrastructures for capital profit. e.g. Feed an electrical grid with electricity that we produce. Those added choices are meant to stimulate competition to keep prices at a minimum and stimulate startups.

    Now that Article Two has been voted out/down due to the new Trump administration’s FCC appointees with their political ideology, ISPs once again have legal rights to possibly block sites (flow), throttle speed (flow), charge more to one than the other, or not offer some their services at all. They have indeed conducted all or some of these in the past. That’s why all the lawsuits that eventually lead up to the introduction of Article Two under the Obama administration’s FCC appointees with their political ideology. Another possibility because time has passed is that they may offer “site bundles” just as TV stations are “bundled” via levels of service as some have mentioned. Other marketing techniques that they can invent/introduce as well. It also stifles startup companies.

    With all that said, this is what I think needs to happen. Congress needs to take the bull by the horns and restructure the whole thing, for we are following old law that to me and others does not apply to our modern tech and gives too much free reign to the FCC to decide what rules are applied or not applied, which in turn gives free reign to big corps. IOW the Inet is becoming our primary means of communication, not just the telephone, whether it be cellular or landline. Just as I’m communicating with other users via this post.

    Problem is with what’s been shaking in DC lately who in the hey can we trust to do that as “trusted servants”? To many lawyers that hold office instead of other professions or commoners. Most politicians have a vested interest in one or more corporations, so they’ll pass laws or make/eliminate rules along those lines. Welcome the United States of America, Inc.

    After all this research, I still hold to When FCC Kills Net Neutrality, Here's What Internet Could Look Like - Page 5 - Windows 10 Forums. Simply dumb data-flow pipes and nothing more. Just as a dumb natural gas line, water pipe, or electrical wire. They don’t need to input their data into the system other than to maintain that system.

    So far as “Netflix using up 30% of the bandwidth”. That’s ISPs blowing smoke. They simply didn’t invest in updating infrastructure for the bandwidth. We the consumers are paying the MBs of data from and to any “information providers” service company just as any “information providers” service company pays for their MBs to and from our systems. This is no different than an electrical utility company upgrading their infrastructure to handle more demand because of more consumers are using AC pumps just as an example. If it cost we the consumers more per MB, KW, BTU, or gallons to upgrade any infrastructure, then so be it. There had better be a reasonable justification for it, though.

    Last, but not least, this isn’t one of our biggest problems. Look into the most illegal piece of crap Federal Reserve System. Pulled the wool over the eyes of most American sheeples for many years. Those that supposedly serve us serve their money god. Doesn’t look like its’s going well for us so far. $20 + trillion of national debt and growing.
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  9. Posts : 49
    W10 Pro 64, version 1803
       18 Dec 2017 #98

    lehnerus2000 said: View Post
    Since Government Regulation is so bad lets get rid of all the safety regulations on buildings, cars, food, etc. too.
    After all complying with those also reduces business profits.
    There are regulations that are good and necessary, like what you said about food safety. But regulations just for the sake of regulations end up doing more harm than good, and costing the public money without serving a good cause.
    Like Thrash said, some regulations are little more than senseless red tape to fix a non issue.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  10. Anak's Avatar
    Posts : 429
    10 Home 64-bit | v1803 | Build -17134.345
       18 Dec 2017 #99

    Wondering if your name was used in the FCC's Net Nutrality decision?


    Go to this site and check: https://badcomments.attorneygeneral.gov/ Input your name and If your name is there and you didn't make a comment you can also report it if you like.

    I checked and neither my wife or I were included.
      My ComputersSystem Spec


 
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