Windows 10: Announcing Windows 10 Insider Preview Fast+Skip Build 17046 for PC Insider

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  1. Posts : 19,852
    Windows 10 Insider Preview Build 17083
       02 Dec 2017 #300

    johngalt said: View Post
    Ok, while I am not pointing any fingers at anyone (except maybe myself), I have to point out the incongruity here.

    Testers should scientifically be testing these builds, but subjectively feel unappreciated without explanations.

    Let that sink in for a moment.

    Mind you, I agreed that testing should be thorough and scientific. But, personally, I don't give a ... rodent's derriere about explanations, nor about appreciation. All I want to see are bugs being quashed.

    However, I concede that those that 'feel' underappreciated are probably more likely to be the same ones who aren't testing very scientifically (or systematically, for that matter).

    In all the eta testing I have been involved in over the years, I, personally, can unequivocally say that I derived my sense of satisfaction, not from being told anything, but by seeing the product I was testing become a better product due to the testing conducted by the testers.

    Granted, as with any venture, there were 1 or 2 (or a relative few in large scale tests) who were glory hound, who wanted some sort of recognition, but by and large, the vast majority of people I met were not testing to get recognition, but testing to help developers release a better product.
    Well said, John!
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  2. Posts : 19,852
    Windows 10 Insider Preview Build 17083
       02 Dec 2017 #301

    cereberus said: View Post
    I have a PHD in engineering and have developed major internationally used packages. The developers will have a systematic checklist but that ultimately scratches the surface. Once package goes into wild, at best, a small percentage will do some simplistic but systematic testing on situations applicable to them but majority will just run a few superficial checks.

    I usually check if new feature works in vm first, then on pc etc. I always test these as clean installs to minimise interactions. If not, I ask here and on feedback forum for possible workarounds, or even just education how it works. If it is a real bug, I report it and move on. I do not feel need for long explanation why it failed - I just want it fixed.
    This discussion on testing and whether we should be told why this, that or the other didn't work reminds me of one of my daughters . . . "I don't care why it's not working Mama, just fix it."

    For some reason, I kinda think a majority of us are like my daughter.

    One last thing to note: If I think about how many bugs Insiders have found, requiring Microsoft to explain why each one caused the problems it did wouldn't leave a whole lot of time to code, now, would it?

    Click image for larger version. 

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      My ComputerSystem Spec

  3.    02 Dec 2017 #302

    martyfelker said: View Post
    You almost certainly will not any reason for the AMD bug. This involves really big bucks on the corporate side. The only analog I have in my testing experience is when I could not activate my copy of Office 2003 online and escalated the problem from India to a pretty high level at Redmond. I worked very well with the guy there and we did a lot of cool stuff but at a certaini point he was almost ready to have me go into the registry to activate the software and then thought better of it and instead sent me a copy of Office 2003 in a plain white mailer that would always activate. Maybe I can find it and install it in the Windows XP VM I made for her (she has software that will only run on XP).
    For crying out loud guys - MS gave a perfectly adequate reason - there was an unexpected compatibility issue. What more do you need to know?
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  4.    02 Dec 2017 #303

    Wynona said: View Post
    Ummm, Count, I'm not too sure what we're doing is very scientific. Has there been a scientific study of bugs (the technology type)?
    Yes, it's called Entomology
      My ComputersSystem Spec

  5.    02 Dec 2017 #304

    It wouldn't kill them to say a word or two abut at least major bugs.
      My ComputersSystem Spec


  6. Posts : 13,990
    Windows 10 Pro
       02 Dec 2017 #305

    BTW geeks, something interesting that if it has been mentioned before it has completely passed me, a major change I accidentally noticed when preparing a new deployment image in Audit Mode in a Hyper-V VM:

    As of version 1709, all UWP apps work also when signed in with native built-in admin credentials. Earlier it was not possible, any UWP app except Settings would show an error message when tried to launch it in built-in admin account:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    But now, since 16299, you can use all UWP apps for instance when customizing Windows image in Audit Mode when signed in as built-in admin, or if for any other reason built-in admin account has been enabled and user has signed in to it.
      My ComputerSystem Spec


  7. Posts : 19,852
    Windows 10 Insider Preview Build 17083
       02 Dec 2017 #306

    CountMike said: View Post
    Yes, it's called Entomology
    Wynona said:
    Ummm, Count, I'm not too sure what we're doing is very scientific. Has there been a scientific study of bugs (the technology type)?
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	166503Entomology is the study of insects (bugs); I said the technology type, so it don't count . . . no pun intended . . .
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  8. Posts : 33,168
    Triple boot - Win 10 Pro, Win 10 Pro Insider (2) - (and a sprinkling of VMs)
       02 Dec 2017 #307

    Wynona said: View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	166503Entomology is the study of insects (bugs); I said the technology type, so it don't count . . . no pun intended . . .
    Glitchomology?
      My ComputersSystem Spec

  •    02 Dec 2017 #308

    Kari said: View Post
    BTW geeks, something interesting that if it has been mentioned before it has completely passed me, a major change I accidentally noticed when preparing a new deployment image in Audit Mode in a Hyper-V VM:

    As of version 1709, all UWP apps work also when signed in with native built-in admin credentials. Earlier it was not possible, any UWP app except Settings would show an error message when tried to launch it in built-in admin account:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	image.png 
Views:	65 
Size:	69.1 KB 
ID:	166498

    But now, since 16299, you can use all UWP apps for instance when customizing Windows image in Audit Mode when signed in as built-in admin, or if for any other reason built-in admin account has been enabled and user has signed in to it.
    Are you sure it is all uwp apps?

    Windows native uwp apps are provisioned for all users, whereas as 3rd party apps are usually for specific users?
      My ComputerSystem Spec


  • Posts : 13,990
    Windows 10 Pro
       02 Dec 2017 #309

    cereberus said: View Post
    Are you sure it is all uwp apps?

    Windows native uwp apps are provisioned for all users, whereas as 3rd party apps are usually for specific users?
    How were you expecting me to answer such a question? "No, of course I am not sure. I just invent these things and post as facts".

    Seriously, if I hadn't tested it several times, both native Microsoft and third party UWP apps when signed in as built-in admin, both when no other user accounts exist (Audit Mode) and in normal mode enabling built-in admin first, I hadn't posted "all UWP apps can be now run when signed in as built-in admin".

    Kari


    EDIT:

    A screenshot, build 17046 PRO Hyper-V VM booted to Audit Mode, image customization done, ready to Sysprep. As you can see in PowerShell, the VM has no other user accounts than the system ones, I am signed in with built-in admin as you automatically are when entering Audit Mode. Native UWP apps Edge and Store open, using Store I have already installed third party UWP app, a Minions game, and am currently downloading UWP reader app for BBC News:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Kari; 02 Dec 2017 at 21:45.
      My ComputerSystem Spec


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