Windows 10: Announcing Windows 10 Insider Preview Fast+Skip Build 17046 for PC Insider

Page 29 of 68 FirstFirst ... 19272829303139 ... LastLast
  1.    02 Dec 2017 #280

    Random testing is like throwing dice, real testing for meaningful results should be ordered.
      My ComputersSystem Spec


  2. Posts : 1,524
    WinX Pro x64 IP current
       02 Dec 2017 #281

    cereberus said: View Post
    The problem was fixed in less than two weeks. I had an AMD and had to skip a build - SO WHAT. It is still early in RS4 development cycle. People forget what Insiders is about - testing stuff! So some could not test a particular build - big deal (for non english that means NOT a big deal)!

    Why are people still harping over an issue that is no longer an issue?

    If people are concerned about quality of builds, do not use Fast Ring. I used to say builds should be tested more before release etc, but I realised that just slowed down releases on Fast Ring reducing amount of testing overall.
    100% agreed.
    Edwin said: View Post
    "Windows Sets" coming to Windows 10! Now this looks promising!



    But...

    Did Stardock beat them to the punch with 'Groupy'???

    Yeah. Let's pay money for a feature about to come to Windows for free.
    CountMike said: View Post
    It may not be a "big deal" but on the other hand I'm also looking for new stuff to test and MS's is not providing any explanation about cause of problems like that. Being an insider also implies having inquisitive mind and thinking. Any testing like insider versions should be done in scientific way.
    I would argue that being an Insider provides *some* with the ability to *methodically* test build, whereas the vast majority just run limited testing, or subjective testing testing versus any sort of scientific testing at all.

    With the massive numbers of people reporting issues, you have to figure that for every report there are X # of people not reporting but only upvoting existing reports, Y # of people who just read the reports, applying any workarounds as posted, and Z # of people who never look at feedback in the first place. I won't make any guesses, other than to say that I believe none of those numbers are 0.
      My ComputersSystem Spec


  3. Posts : 1,524
    WinX Pro x64 IP current
       02 Dec 2017 #282

    CountMike said: View Post
    Random testing is like throwing dice, real testing for meaningful results should be ordered.
    But not everyone using these builds (or involved in any other software ßeta testing, for that matter) uses any systematic approach to testing the software that they are supposed to be testing.
      My ComputersSystem Spec


  4. Posts : 38,043
    Dual boot Windows 10 FCU Pro x 64 & current Insider 10 Pro
       02 Dec 2017 #283

    CountMike said: View Post
    Random testing is like throwing dice, real testing for meaningful results should be ordered.


    You mean like actually using the system as intended or using it at all? Report or up vote any bugs? Fulfill at least some quests? Things like that?
      My ComputersSystem Spec

  5.    02 Dec 2017 #284

    HippsieGypsie said: View Post


    You mean like actually using the system as intended or using it at all? Report or up vote any bugs? Fulfill at least some quests? Things like that?
    Yes, that's our part but MS has also most interest vested in it otherwise they wouldn't be doing it. Some may feel that without some explanations from MS's side their work is not appreciated enough.
      My ComputersSystem Spec


  6. Posts : 1,524
    WinX Pro x64 IP current
       02 Dec 2017 #285

    Ok, while I am not pointing any fingers at anyone (except maybe myself), I have to point out the incongruity here.

    Testers should scientifically be testing these builds, but subjectively feel unappreciated without explanations.

    Let that sink in for a moment.

    Mind you, I agreed that testing should be thorough and scientific. But, personally, I don't give a ... rodent's derriere about explanations, nor about appreciation. All I want to see are bugs being quashed.

    However, I concede that those that 'feel' underappreciated are probably more likely to be the same ones who aren't testing very scientifically (or systematically, for that matter).

    In all the ßeta testing I have been involved in over the years, I, personally, can unequivocally say that I derived my sense of satisfaction, not from being told anything, but by seeing the product I was testing become a better product due to the testing conducted by the testers.

    Granted, as with any venture, there were 1 or 2 (or a relative few in large scale tests) who were glory hound, who wanted some sort of recognition, but by and large, the vast majority of people I met were not testing to get recognition, but testing to help developers release a better product.
      My ComputersSystem Spec


  7. Posts : 38,043
    Dual boot Windows 10 FCU Pro x 64 & current Insider 10 Pro
       02 Dec 2017 #286

    CountMike said: View Post
    Yes, that's our part but MS has also most interest vested in it otherwise they wouldn't be doing it. Some may feel that without some explanations from MS's side their work is not appreciated enough.
    I'm on my Insider now. Sometimes I wonder how many are. Yes, we humans have inquisitive minds as you say. When my children or employees asked me why, why not, or give them directions, I usually made it a point to tell them why or why not. It's a part of the learning process. Got that from my mother and some teachers. My dad, not so much.
      My ComputersSystem Spec

  8.    02 Dec 2017 #287

    HippsieGypsie said: View Post
    I'm on my Insider now. Sometimes I wonder how many are. Yes, we humans have inquisitive minds as you say. When my children or employees asked me why, why not, or give them directions, I usually made it a point to tell them why or why not. It's a part of the learning process. Got that from my mother and some teachers. My dad, not so much.
    My father was a scientist (chemist) and army colonel, I must have picked up some things from him. I like orderly testing and use and also to see results negative or positive. Negative results can be more educative than positive ones. When something works. it works bu if it doesn't..... that's when you really need to know why.
      My ComputersSystem Spec


  • Posts : 1,524
    WinX Pro x64 IP current
       02 Dec 2017 #288

    My father is a retired Horticulturist with well over 100 published papers, and I have a Masters in Biotechnology. I truly understand the need to know why something didn't work. Key word, someTHING. Not plural, singular. Experiments in my Masters thesis were focused on no more than a few variables, maybe up to 10, for the sake of keeping things not only coherent but also keeping the workload manageable and allowing me to complete the experiments, compliment the data and offer analysis and draw conclusions all withing a reasonable amount of time.

    In software testing, however, particularly in ßeta testing, you go in *knowing* that things may not work. In addition, note that every single IP build we have treated has had a list of things that 'are not working'.

    Do we really need explanations for each and every one of those things?

    Or do we now qualify which things that are not working get an explanation?

    The easiest solution is to fix the bugs and release another build. The second easiest is to discuss the most prevalent bugs, fix them, and release a new build The third easiest would be to answer what the users want to hear in a democratic manner, then fix and release.

    By far the hardest would be to answer every single problem, issue and concern that every single user has with each build.

    Yes, it would be nice to know why, but realistically, the why is pretty irrelevant for us testers as we are not involved in the actual coding of the OS preview build we are testing.

    As your father the Chemist was, as my father the Horticulturist was, and sh I was in my Masters program, we were directly involved in the processes of our experimentation to obtain a result. The testing we performed was so we could alert the parameters ourselves to eventually lead to a successful outcome.

    As software testers, we can only report the results, none of us are coding these preview builds ourselves. It is not an apples to apples comparison.
      My ComputersSystem Spec

  •    02 Dec 2017 #289

    I have a PHD in engineering and have developed major internationally used packages. The developers will have a systematic checklist but that ultimately scratches the surface. Once package goes into wild, at best, a small percentage will do some simplistic but systematic testing on situations applicable to them but majority will just run a few superficial checks.

    I usually check if new feature works in vm first, then on pc etc. I always test these as clean installs to minimise interactions. If not, I ask here and on feedback forum for possible workarounds, or even just education how it works. If it is a real bug, I report it and move on. I do not feel need for long explanation why it failed - I just want it fixed.
      My ComputerSystem Spec


  •  
    Page 29 of 68 FirstFirst ... 19272829303139 ... LastLast

    Related Threads
    UPDATE 11/22: Announcing Windows 10 Insider Preview Fast+Skip Build 17046 for PC Insider - Windows 10 Forums 931221002532503552 Source: Announcing Windows 10 Insider Preview Build 17040 for PC - Windows Experience Blog
    UPDATE 11/16: Announcing Windows 10 Insider Fast+Skip Ahead Build 17040 for PC Insider - Windows 10 Forums 928321775498170368 Source: Announcing Windows 10 Insider Preview Build 17035 for PC - Windows Experience Blog
    918976964165230592 918950777619484672 918884711891550208 Source: Announcing Windows 10 Insider Preview Build 17017 for PC - Windows Experience Blog
    900402809685721088 900405174786695168 Source: Announcing Windows 10 Insider Preview Build 16273 for PC - Windows Experience Blog How to Start or Stop Receiving Insider Builds in Windows 10
    903302171319427076 Source: Announcing Windows 10 Insider Preview Build 16353 for PC (Skip Ahead) - Windows Experience Blog How to Start or Stop Receiving Insider Builds in Windows 10 How to Choose Your Insider Ring Level on your...
    Our Sites
    Site Links
    About Us
    Windows 10 Forums is an independent web site and has not been authorized, sponsored, or otherwise approved by Microsoft Corporation. "Windows 10" and related materials are trademarks of Microsoft Corp.

    © Designer Media Ltd
    All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:39.
    Find Us