Cumulative Update KB4043961 Build 16299.19 for PC Insider

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  1. Superfly's Avatar
    Posts : 3,337
       #210

    cereberus said:
    Doesn't this just sum up the whole problem with UUP - the original intent was to only download what was changed to speed things up. Instead times have doubled or even trebled. This is totally unacceptable.
    It's a catch 22 - quick downloads (small compact esd's) but longer installation times (partly due to unpacking/decompressing them)
    Once the latter is optimized (DISM is not the answer) the results should be better.. in theory, anyway.
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  2. cereberus's Avatar
    Posts : 12,034
    Windows10
       #211

    Superfly said:
    It's a catch 22 - quick downloads (small compact esd's) but longer installation times (partly due to unpacking/decompressing them)
    Once the latter is optimized (DISM is not the answer) the results should be better.. in theory, anyway.
    The time difference between using a single esd file and individual esd files is far too great to be simply being due to decompression (anyway - the install.esd file has to be decompressed).

    There is something else going on that is really slowing down things.

    I am guessing (I have no knowledge if I am right) that the big time difference arises from the time it takes to analyse if a file should be changed or not, and presumably all dependencies thereafter. The install.esd method is less intelligent, just replacing every file.

    Anybody got a better theory (or better still actually knows?).

    Incidentally, I bet MS developers all have top of the line pcs and never actually think to test things on mid/low end devices - LOL
    Last edited by cereberus; 04 Oct 2017 at 15:31.
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  3. Posts : 2,765
    Windows 10 Pro X64
       #212

    Hi,

    Anybody got a better theory (or better still actually knows?).
    You're spot on.

    Cheers,
      My Computers

  4. dencal's Avatar
    Posts : 3,045
    W10 Pro + W10 Preview
       #213

    The updated OEM to Insider AKA 16299.15 produced 32+ GB using Disk Clean-up after install.
    Rather a large amount compared to Insider updating to Insider of around 26+GB.
      My Computers


  5. Posts : 2,765
    Windows 10 Pro X64
       #214

    Hi,

    dencal said:
    The updated OEM to Insider AKA 16299.15 produced 32+ GB using Disk Clean-up after install.
    Rather a large amount compared to Insider updating to Insider of around 26+GB.
    Hibernation on again perhaps ?

    Cheers,
      My Computers

  6. slicendice's Avatar
    Posts : 4,645
    Windows 10 Pro x64 20H2 Build 19042.906 (Branch: Release Preview)
       #215

    cereberus said:
    The time difference between using a single esd file and individual esd files is far too great to be simply being due to decompression (anyway - the install.esd file has to be decompressed).

    There is something else going on that is really slowing down things.

    I am guessing (I have no knowledge if I am right) that the big time difference arises from the time it takes to analyse if a file should be changed or not, and presumably all dependencies thereafter. The install.esd method is less intelligent, just replacing every file.

    Anybody got a better theory (or better still actually knows?).

    Incidentally, I bet MS developers all have top of the line pcs and never actually think to test things on mid/low end devices - LOL
    I am confident that decompressing the esd file or any other compressed files is the least of our concern. Download size difference between ESD and UUP methods is gigantic. That is what UUP is all about...to conserve internet bandwidth.

    I have a pretty good idea how the whole UUP process works, why having an SSD instead of HDD or turning off Defender speeds up the process significantly. I have talked about it before. Should I start repeating myself for a third time?

    One thing we all can agree on though is that from a users perspective UUP sucks compared to ESD, especially when the files are now received as express packages. :)
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  7. dencal's Avatar
    Posts : 3,045
    W10 Pro + W10 Preview
       #216

    fdegrove said:
    Hi,



    Hibernation on again perhaps ?

    Cheers,
    No its turned OFF.
      My Computers


  8. Posts : 2,765
    Windows 10 Pro X64
       #217

    Hi,
    @dencal: That's pretty massive considering none of my machines surpass 20 Gb.

    @slicendice:
    That is what UUP is all about...to conserve internet bandwidth.
    Does it ? It absolutely does not. Give us files we can copy and reuse from one machine to the next. Not something we have to download for every single machine.
    Can't you see right through the scheme ? I sure do. Put yourself on a metered connection and you'll see.

    Cheers,
      My Computers

  9. slicendice's Avatar
    Posts : 4,645
    Windows 10 Pro x64 20H2 Build 19042.906 (Branch: Release Preview)
       #218

    fdegrove said:

    Does it ? It absolutely does not. Give us files we can copy and reuse from one machine to the next. Not something we have to download for every single machine.
    Can't you see right through the scheme ? I sure do. Put yourself on a metered connection and you'll see.

    Cheers,
    It surely does! there is a huge difference between an 800MB and a 2.7GB download (last time I checked). And your WU files can be shared locally, it is built in WU if you let Windows use that feature.
      My Computers

  10. Fafhrd's Avatar
    Posts : 1,981
    Windows 10 x86 14383 Insider Pro and Core 10240
       #219

    Everything needed to create a Windows 10 Setup ISO is still downloaded in a build update, UUPtoISO is proof of this.
    It's not the download that is differential, but the processing to a Windows diskimage that is differential.
    Much of a Windows 10 installation is redundant SxS, catalogs and manifests, sparse files and the like that make modern Windows so resilient.
    A WIM or ESD imagefile file packs all this structure and compresses 9 GB or so of files into about 4 GB, containing just under half a GB of setup related files including WinPE, WinRE,Setup Media and Boot images.
    UUP takes about 2 GB of compressed CABs and ESDs, expands them and creates all the redundant SxS, catalogs and manifests, sparse files and the like, and the system structure to make a mounted 9GB installation image and compresses the old Windows system into a Windows.old folder, and replaces it with the new image. So you need about 10 GB free, because the swap, hiber, and pagefiles can be reduced at this time.

    What it cuts down on compared with the old ESD single image download, is the duplication of the image in the c:\windows\softwaredistribution\downloads\xxlonghashedfoldernamexx\install.esd image containing setup files+windows image -> $WINDOWS.~BT\setup files and install.ESD (which is really just a WIM image) and then the space needed for the expanded image, since these need to exist simultaneously, and can take up to about 16GB at one time, which is just too much to upgrade tablets with about 32GB total capacity.

    So the UUP methodology was introduced.

    Eventuallly, once all the wrinkles have been ironed out, the WinPE/WinRE and MediaSetup files will become so standardised that they will probably exist, compressed, within the recovery environment, and not be part of the build update package at all.
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