Windows 10: Announcing Windows 10 Insider Preview Build 16199 PC + 15215 Mobile Insider

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  1.    29 May 2017 #340

    badrobot said: View Post
    I also just disagree with you saying that once one drive was removed, the other won't boot. If that is the case, then there's a huge problem with your boot manager being in the wrong place. It's not supposed to be that way. Each drive should be able to boot up by itself and can be imaged independent of each other.
    So, just because some PCs can't do multiple drives means it's a good idea to have multiple OSes on a single drive.
    My main point is that, with multiple drives, you can disconnect the other drives to avoid messing up the boot manager on the other before performing an upgrade task. Otherwise, you will have a problem of multiples OSes with a single boot partition or some of them won't boot up at all.
    You obviously are misunderstanding my point. I fully understand your point.

    You are not correct that each drive should boot up independently. That is not how TRUE dual boot works.

    When you install OS on one drive, an EFI (in UEFI) partition is installed on that drive. If you later install OS on a second drive as a TRUE dual boot, the boot info is added to the EFI partition on first drive. This is fine except if you remove first drive. HOWEVER, with this, you get a proper boot menu at start-up, and no need to select drive from bios.

    Alternatively, you can have standalone installs on each drive which you have to remove/disable first drive before installing on second so you do not create a dual boot pc, and have to select which drive to use from bios. Your approach is fine provided it is easy to select which drive to boot from and with UEFI that can be much harder as traditional function key access does not work on many devices.

    Also, when you do true dual boot, as there is only one EFI partition, it does not really matter much if OSs are on same drive or separate drives - effect is the same. I prefer on same drive as easier to image backup, and also I have SSD for may OS drive.

    You choose to do it your way because it is convenient for you - relatively easy with legacy bios. I choose to use true dual boot as that is much easier on my UEFI devices. Neither method is superior - they have pros and cons and you choose which suits you best.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  2.    29 May 2017 #341

    cereberus said: View Post
    You obviously are misunderstanding my point. I fully understand your point.

    You are not correct that each drive should boot up independently. That is not how TRUE dual boot works.

    When you install OS on one drive, an EFI (in UEFI) partition is installed on that drive. If you later install OS on a second drive as a TRUE dual boot, the boot info is added to the EFI partition on first drive. This is fine except if you remove first drive. HOWEVER, with this, you get a proper boot menu at start-up, and no need to select drive from bios.

    Alternatively, you can have standalone installs on each drive which you have to remove/disable first drive before installing on second so you do not create a dual boot pc, and have to select which drive to use from bios. Your approach is fine provided it is easy to select which drive to boot from and with UEFI that can be much harder as traditional function key access does not work on many devices.

    Also, when you do true dual boot, as there is only one EFI partition, it does not really matter much if OSs are on same drive or separate drives - effect is the same. I prefer on same drive as easier to image backup, and also I have SSD for may OS drive.

    You choose to do it your way because it is convenient for you - relatively easy with legacy bios. I choose to use true dual boot as that is much easier on my UEFI devices. Neither method is superior - they have pros and cons and you choose which suits you best.
    What's than TRUE dual boot on two drives with legacy BIOS ?
      My ComputersSystem Spec


  3. Posts : 4,770
    Win 10 Pro x64
       29 May 2017 #342

    cereberus said: View Post
    You obviously are misunderstanding my point. I fully understand your point.

    You are not correct that each drive should boot up independently. That is not how TRUE dual boot works.

    When you install OS on one drive, an EFI (in UEFI) partition is installed on that drive. If you later install OS on a second drive as a TRUE dual boot, the boot info is added to the EFI partition on first drive. This is fine except if you remove first drive. HOWEVER, with this, you get a proper boot menu at start-up, and no need to select drive from bios.

    Alternatively, you can have standalone installs on each drive which you have to remove/disable first drive before installing on second so you do not create a dual boot pc, and have to select which drive to use from bios. Your approach is fine provided it is easy to select which drive to boot from and with UEFI that can be much harder as traditional function key access does not work on many devices.

    Also, when you do true dual boot, as there is only one EFI partition, it does not really matter much if OSs are on same drive or separate drives - effect is the same. I prefer on same drive as easier to image backup, and also I have SSD for may OS drive.

    You choose to do it your way because it is convenient for you - relatively easy with legacy bios. I choose to use true dual boot as that is much easier on my UEFI devices. Neither method is superior - they have pros and cons and you choose which suits you best.
    My point is both. Don't do it on the same drive and don't do true dual boot if you can help it. Do the "False" dual boot especially if the other OS is an Insider Preview. It changes all the time and it can cause problems any time. More so if the other OS is a Linux.
    I have both UEFI and Legacy BIOS working. If you look back at the screenshot I posted, my main OS is on GPT and the Insider is on MBR disk. I find it easier that way because they don't see each other. I can upgrade my Insider any time without disconnecting my main OS drive. It doesn't get affected at all.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  4.    29 May 2017 #343

    CountMike said: View Post
    What's than TRUE dual boot on two drives with legacy BIOS ?
    Same as EFI - one system reserved partition on first drive Windows was installed on.

    In fact really old installs do not always have a system reserved partition but the boot info is stored on the C drive. This is unusual these days unless upgrade to 10 was from a really old 7 install.

    The only difference really is that legacy bios is limited to 4 primary partitions which is a constraint in using one drive, although the simple work around for that is to install each OS in a VHD instead.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  5.    29 May 2017 #344

    badrobot said: View Post
    My point is both. Don't do it on the same drive and don't do true dual boot if you can help it. Do the "False" dual boot especially if the other OS is an Insider Preview. It changes all the time and it can cause problems any time. More so if the other OS is a Linux.
    I have both UEFI and Legacy BIOS working. If you look back at the screenshot I posted, my main OS is on GPT and the Insider is on MBR disk. I find it easier that way because they don't see each other. I can upgrade my Insider any time without disconnecting my main OS drive. It doesn't get affected at all.
    I have gone to great lengths to explain many PCs do not easily handle switching OS via bios if UEFI, and you do not acknowledge the point. You must have a pc where that is not an issue - it's a real PITA on mine. My final word - HORSE FOR COURSES.
      My ComputerSystem Spec


  6. Posts : 4,770
    Win 10 Pro x64
       29 May 2017 #345

    cereberus said: View Post
    I have gone to great lengths to explain many PCs do not easily handle switching OS via bios if UEFI, and you do not acknowledge the point. You must have a pc where that is not an issue - it's a real PITA on mine. My final word - HORSE FOR COURSES.
    I just don't understand why it was a PITA for your UEFI system. I have a 2-in-1 laptop that doesn't have an F key to access boot drive but it is still so easy. I just go to UEFI settings (F2 key), change boot priority, save, exit, restart... done. Not that hard actually.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  7.    29 May 2017 #346

    This build seems to have some real problems with game compatibility. Found another D3d game that ran perfectly under pre-Creator's Update builds that *won't run at all* under 16199 D3d. Have to actually change the API (to GLIDE) to run the game at all, now, as d3d no longer works at all! Prior to the CU, game compatibility under Win10x64 builds was nearly 100%, or as close to that ideal number as possible. Seems Microsoft is really screwing up d3d with these "gaming modes" because they attach extraneous dll's to the game executables in ram and it's playing havoc with game compatibility. (Oh, the game is the GOG version of Wizardry 8--which ran fine under Win10x64 d3d until 16188 and forward.)
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  8.    29 May 2017 #347

    I install on separate SSD's, 1 is insider and the other is AU. A dual removable tray makes this so easy. Slide one out just enough to disconnect the pins in the back and and slide the other in to make connections. I only have one in at a time. Boot up must check which one is populated and boots accordingly. Dual tray also makes it easy when I do an image etc on a backup drive. I do have HDD's in use, but prefer an image(s) to be out of the machine and stored away. I find this easy for me. YMMV
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DSC01511.JPG  
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  •    29 May 2017 #348

    badrobot said: View Post
    I just don't understand why it was a PITA for your UEFI system. I have a 2-in-1 laptop that doesn't have an F key to access boot drive but it is still so easy. I just go to UEFI settings (F2 key), change boot priority, save, exit, restart... done. Not that hard actually.
    Oh man - that's the bloody point - F2 or similar does not bloody work on all bloody pcs. Have you not actually read what I posted! Bye Bye.
      My ComputerSystem Spec


  • Posts : 2,705
    W10 Pro + W10 Preview
       29 May 2017 #349

    meebers said: View Post
    I install on separate SSD's, 1 is insider and the other is AU. A dual removable tray makes this so easy. Slide one out just enough to disconnect the pins in the back and and slide the other in to make connections. I only have one in at a time. Boot up must check which one is populated and boots accordingly. Dual tray also makes it easy when I do an image etc on a backup drive. I do have HDD's in use, but prefer an image(s) to be out of the machine and stored away. I find this easy for me. YMMV
    My setup too....it just makes sense...
      My ComputersSystem Spec


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