Announcing Windows 10 Insider Preview Build 16179 PC + 15205 Mobile Insider

martyfelker said:

And it is a fact that Mail is broken on this build - I've confirmed the inability to add Gmail or Yahoo on my Enterprise and Education Virtualbox VMs. So I posted on the feedback hub. But I'm sure someone can confirm the bug here.

On W10 Home and Pro in Mail I have installed the following 4 accounts.... Outlook, Gmail, Virginmedia..... and Sky who are serviced by Yahoo.....
All are running perfectly, in fact mail is transferred instantly, even though in settings the lowest time quoted is every 15 minutes.

martyfelker said:

I j ustgot the OK from Brink to share my 16179 ISO. Although I suppose I could use onedrive I'm going to see if I can't share it publically via Dropbox. Microsoft seems reluctant to put up an ISO from the rs3 branch so we should do our parts and not snipe at each other. I am ignoring any future taunting. And it is a fact that Mail is broken on this build - I've confirmed the inability to add Gmail or Yahoo on my Enterprise and Education Virtualbox VMs. So I posted on the feedback hub. But I'm sure someone can confirm the bug here.

- at the outset, MS did warn us that rs3 was possibly going to be crunch time for insiders..
- a lot of basic coding going on, likely to bring up some unusual problems going forward..

- feedback is all important at this stage..

BugMeister said:

- at the outset, MS did warn us that rs3 was possibly going to be crunch time for insiders..
- a lot of basic coding going on, likely to bring up some unusual problems going forward..

- feedback is all important at this stage..

Sound heads up BugMeister.

lx07 said:

Most testing here appears to be of the "can I install it in a VM, yes, look the start menu is slightly different" level.

Some people use VMs (I do for things that are important to me) some don't.

I'm one of those who don't, Ix. Way back when, I was told it's best to test on a physical machine. I don't know if that's true or not, but as long as I have plenty of hard drives and external drives, I'll continue on as before. :)

lx07 said:

There aren't ISO released but you can (with 20 seconds googling) download the required bits direct from MS and make your own ISO using a converter which you can get here on TenForums (or elsewhere if you want).

Please, please, please tell me more, Ix! So far, I haven't been successful in creating my own ISO, but not for want of trying. I'm going to update Lappy this evening, and hopefully, it will work this time.

lx07 said:

It would be dumb to upgrade your main PC with no backup but I've done it in the past. It depends on your perception of risk and how much you care if it doesn't work.

I keep my RTM partition backed up, but I'm not so careful with my Insider Build partition. All data is backed up to an external drive, and no important work is done on my Insider partition.

lx07 said:

For me, every singe upgrade has worked and if it failed I'd not care.

I cannot say the same because I've had several Builds fail in one way or another, and I definitely do care! I cannot, will not, allow Windows to whup me if I can at all help it!

lx07 said:

If you don't know how to keep your data safe you shouldn't be playing with beta versions.

Amen, Brudder, even if ya are preachin' to tha choir!

martyfelker said:

I j ustgot the OK from Brink to share my 16179 ISO. Although I suppose I could use onedrive I'm going to see if I can't share it publically via Dropbox. Microsoft seems reluctant to put up an ISO from the rs3 branch so we should do our parts and not snipe at each other. I am ignoring any future taunting. And it is a fact that Mail is broken on this build - I've confirmed the inability to add Gmail or Yahoo on my Enterprise and Education Virtualbox VMs. So I posted on the feedback hub. But I'm sure someone can confirm the bug here.

I'd love to try it, Marty, but so far I've never gotten "just plain Microsoft Mail" to work in Win 10.

Fafhrd said:

Testing a new IP build on those commonly available VM systems, especially Microsoft's own Hyper-V, is something that must happen in the MS Windows development labs hundreds if not thousands of times before the next new build is released to the general mass of those on the Insider Program, and that is probably why Kari can guarantee that an upgrade performed in a VM will work.

However, IMO, that is not what the Insider Program is really about - repeating the work already carried out.

I feel that it should be a test on a sample of the general population of machines, old, new, perfect and faulty, overclocked and underspecified, warts and all, and definitely never likely to be seen anywhere near the Microsoft Windows development labs, and not on a batch of behave-alike virtual machines with a small range of virtual components and devices that only exist in the VMs themselves.

Maybe that's why I was told it's best to test on a physical, rather than virtual, machine.

Fafhrd said:

Testing a new IP build on those commonly available VM systems, especially Microsoft's own Hyper-V, is something that must happen in the MS Windows development labs hundreds if not thousands of times before the next new build is released to the general mass of those on the Insider Program, and that is probably why Kari can guarantee that an upgrade performed in a VM will work.

However, IMO, that is not what the Insider Program is really about - repeating the work already carried out.

I feel that it should be a test on a sample of the general population of machines, old, new, perfect and faulty, overclocked and underspecified, warts and all, and definitely never likely to be seen anywhere near the Microsoft Windows development labs, and not on a batch of behave-alike virtual machines with a small range of virtual components and devices that only exist in the VMs themselves.

Thank you! Exactly what I said.

Kari said:

Originally Posted by Fafhrd
Testing a new IP build on those commonly available VM systems, especially Microsoft's own Hyper-V, is something that must happen in the MS Windows development labs hundreds if not thousands of times before the next new build is released to the general mass of those on the Insider Program, and that is probably why Kari can guarantee that an upgrade performed in a VM will work.



A small but important clarification: An upgrade on a fresh, clean installed Hyper-V virtual machine always works. Of course a VM can develop same kind of issues with Windows Update than any physical machine, that's why I recommend doing it as I told earlier: clean install, update, join Insider program, make checkpoint, upgrade and make ISO, upgrade your physical PC with ISO, restore VM checkpoint and wait next upgrade.



Originally Posted by Fafhrd
However, IMO, that is not what the Insider Program is really about - repeating the work already carried out.

I feel that it should be a test on a sample of the general population of machines, old, new, perfect and faulty, overclocked and underspecified, warts and all, and definitely never likely to be seen anywhere near the Microsoft Windows development labs, and not on a batch of behave-alike virtual machines with a small range of virtual components and devices that only exist in the VMs themselves.



Where / when / how have I said / recommended / suggested that you should test Insider builds on a VM? If the goal is to test Insider builds and WU can't deliver the upgrade on your PC, what is wrong in getting the upgrade on a VM, making an ISO and upgrading the physical PC with it?

That's all I have said: if you can't get your PC upgraded, the VM method always works to get upgrade & ISO to be able to upgrade your PC for further Insider testing.



Originally Posted by Mark Phelps
Actually, I was hoping to create the ISO file using your excellent UUP-to-ISO tutorial, but got the following error messages in the process:



The ESD method has not worked in several last builds. Current upgrades are delivered as UUP upgrades, not as ESD, therefore another tutorial and tool are needed: UUP to ISO - Create Bootable ISO from Windows 10 Build Upgrade Files - Windows 10 Installation Upgrade Tutorials

Kari

I'm sure I stated it badly, I apologise if you thought I intended any criticism of your self in this, Kari, I didn't.

You gave perfectly valid advice on how to progress, to members who are unable to test due to failed upgrades on their hardware

I stated that In my (often flawed) opinion that it may be generally redundant for Insiders to test Insider Program builds on VMs, as your experience indicates.

And that also :

I feel that it should be a test on a sample of the general population of machines, old, new, perfect and faulty, overclocked and underspecified, warts and all, and definitely never likely to be seen anywhere near the Microsoft Windows development labs, and not on a batch of behave-alike virtual machines with a small range of virtual components and devices that only exist in the VMs themselves.

I cannot say how Microsoft's statistics on how the various upgrades succeed and fail are collected and analysed.

By obtaining an upgrade or clean install by some unofficial route, such as from another machine (real or virtual), does this cause the statistics to become skewed, to the detriment of the analytical side of the program?

Much of the recent development has been aimed at improving the effectiveness of the delivery and upgrade process, I would hope that by sidetracking that, it does not influence or delay progress in that direction.

There again, no criticism, just my opinion. Tenforums is certainly an influential site - to the fifty-odd members onboard at the moment, there are over 4000 guests.