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  1.    22 Apr 2017 #161
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Posts : 2,462
    W10 Pro + W10 Preview

    Quote Originally Posted by martyfelker View Post
    And it is a fact that Mail is broken on this build - I've confirmed the inability to add Gmail or Yahoo on my Enterprise and Education Virtualbox VMs. So I posted on the feedback hub. But I'm sure someone can confirm the bug here.
    On W10 Home and Pro in Mail I have installed the following 4 accounts.... Outlook, Gmail, Virginmedia..... and Sky who are serviced by Yahoo.....
    All are running perfectly, in fact mail is transferred instantly, even though in settings the lowest time quoted is every 15 minutes.
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  2.    22 Apr 2017 #162
    Join Date : Oct 2015
    Posts : 2,044
    Windows 10 Pro X64

    Hi,

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Phelps View Post
    Actually, I was hoping to create the ISO file using your excellent UUP-to-ISO tutorial, but got the following error messages in the process:
    Have seen that error before too. Do you run UUP to ISO exe file or the .cmd one ? If the latter then rerun using the executable.
    Not sure if it will work for you but it did for me in the end.

    Cheers,
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  3.    22 Apr 2017 #163
    Join Date : Mar 2015
    Posts : 2,350
    Win10 Pro Build 17046

    Quote Originally Posted by martyfelker View Post
    I j ustgot the OK from Brink to share my 16179 ISO. Although I suppose I could use onedrive I'm going to see if I can't share it publically via Dropbox. Microsoft seems reluctant to put up an ISO from the rs3 branch so we should do our parts and not snipe at each other. I am ignoring any future taunting. And it is a fact that Mail is broken on this build - I've confirmed the inability to add Gmail or Yahoo on my Enterprise and Education Virtualbox VMs. So I posted on the feedback hub. But I'm sure someone can confirm the bug here.
    - at the outset, MS did warn us that rs3 was possibly going to be crunch time for insiders..
    - a lot of basic coding going on, likely to bring up some unusual problems going forward..

    - feedback is all important at this stage..
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  4.    22 Apr 2017 #164
    Join Date : Mar 2015
    Stockport UK
    Posts : 2,770
    Wndows 10 x64 Home version 1709

    Quote Originally Posted by BugMeister View Post
    - at the outset, MS did warn us that rs3 was possibly going to be crunch time for insiders..
    - a lot of basic coding going on, likely to bring up some unusual problems going forward..

    - feedback is all important at this stage..

    Sound heads up BugMeister.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  5.    22 Apr 2017 #165
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Posts : 17,589
    Windows 10 Insider Preview Build 16281

    Quote Originally Posted by lx07 View Post
    Most testing here appears to be of the "can I install it in a VM, yes, look the start menu is slightly different" level.

    Some people use VMs (I do for things that are important to me) some don't.
    I'm one of those who don't, Ix. Way back when, I was told it's best to test on a physical machine. I don't know if that's true or not, but as long as I have plenty of hard drives and external drives, I'll continue on as before.

    Quote Originally Posted by lx07 View Post
    There aren't ISO released but you can (with 20 seconds googling) download the required bits direct from MS and make your own ISO using a converter which you can get here on TenForums (or elsewhere if you want).
    Please, please, please tell me more, Ix! So far, I haven't been successful in creating my own ISO, but not for want of trying. I'm going to update Lappy this evening, and hopefully, it will work this time.

    Quote Originally Posted by lx07 View Post
    It would be dumb to upgrade your main PC with no backup but I've done it in the past. It depends on your perception of risk and how much you care if it doesn't work.
    I keep my RTM partition backed up, but I'm not so careful with my Insider Build partition. All data is backed up to an external drive, and no important work is done on my Insider partition.

    Quote Originally Posted by lx07 View Post
    For me, every singe upgrade has worked and if it failed I'd not care.
    I cannot say the same because I've had several Builds fail in one way or another, and I definitely do care! I cannot, will not, allow Windows to whup me if I can at all help it!

    Quote Originally Posted by lx07 View Post
    If you don't know how to keep your data safe you shouldn't be playing with beta versions.
    Amen, Brudder, even if ya are preachin' to tha choir!
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  6.    22 Apr 2017 #166
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Posts : 17,589
    Windows 10 Insider Preview Build 16281

    Quote Originally Posted by martyfelker View Post
    I j ustgot the OK from Brink to share my 16179 ISO. Although I suppose I could use onedrive I'm going to see if I can't share it publically via Dropbox. Microsoft seems reluctant to put up an ISO from the rs3 branch so we should do our parts and not snipe at each other. I am ignoring any future taunting. And it is a fact that Mail is broken on this build - I've confirmed the inability to add Gmail or Yahoo on my Enterprise and Education Virtualbox VMs. So I posted on the feedback hub. But I'm sure someone can confirm the bug here.
    I'd love to try it, Marty, but so far I've never gotten "just plain Microsoft Mail" to work in Win 10.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  7.    22 Apr 2017 #167
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Posts : 17,589
    Windows 10 Insider Preview Build 16281

    Quote Originally Posted by Fafhrd View Post
    Testing a new IP build on those commonly available VM systems, especially Microsoft's own Hyper-V, is something that must happen in the MS Windows development labs hundreds if not thousands of times before the next new build is released to the general mass of those on the Insider Program, and that is probably why Kari can guarantee that an upgrade performed in a VM will work.

    However, IMO, that is not what the Insider Program is really about - repeating the work already carried out.

    I feel that it should be a test on a sample of the general population of machines, old, new, perfect and faulty, overclocked and underspecified, warts and all, and definitely never likely to be seen anywhere near the Microsoft Windows development labs, and not on a batch of behave-alike virtual machines with a small range of virtual components and devices that only exist in the VMs themselves.
    Maybe that's why I was told it's best to test on a physical, rather than virtual, machine.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  8.    22 Apr 2017 #168
    Join Date : Jan 2015
    Posts : 1,277
    Windows 10 and windows insider

    Quote Originally Posted by Fafhrd View Post
    Testing a new IP build on those commonly available VM systems, especially Microsoft's own Hyper-V, is something that must happen in the MS Windows development labs hundreds if not thousands of times before the next new build is released to the general mass of those on the Insider Program, and that is probably why Kari can guarantee that an upgrade performed in a VM will work.

    However, IMO, that is not what the Insider Program is really about - repeating the work already carried out.

    I feel that it should be a test on a sample of the general population of machines, old, new, perfect and faulty, overclocked and underspecified, warts and all, and definitely never likely to be seen anywhere near the Microsoft Windows development labs, and not on a batch of behave-alike virtual machines with a small range of virtual components and devices that only exist in the VMs themselves.
    Thank you! Exactly what I said.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  9.    22 Apr 2017 #169
    Join Date : Dec 2013
    Portsmouth Hampshire
    Posts : 1,830
    Windows 10 x86 14383 Insider Pro and Core 10240

    Quote Originally Posted by Kari View Post

    Originally Posted by Fafhrd
    Testing a new IP build on those commonly available VM systems, especially Microsoft's own Hyper-V, is something that must happen in the MS Windows development labs hundreds if not thousands of times before the next new build is released to the general mass of those on the Insider Program, and that is probably why Kari can guarantee that an upgrade performed in a VM will work.



    A small but important clarification: An upgrade on a fresh, clean installed Hyper-V virtual machine always works. Of course a VM can develop same kind of issues with Windows Update than any physical machine, that's why I recommend doing it as I told earlier: clean install, update, join Insider program, make checkpoint, upgrade and make ISO, upgrade your physical PC with ISO, restore VM checkpoint and wait next upgrade.



    Originally Posted by Fafhrd
    However, IMO, that is not what the Insider Program is really about - repeating the work already carried out.

    I feel that it should be a test on a sample of the general population of machines, old, new, perfect and faulty, overclocked and underspecified, warts and all, and definitely never likely to be seen anywhere near the Microsoft Windows development labs, and not on a batch of behave-alike virtual machines with a small range of virtual components and devices that only exist in the VMs themselves.



    Where / when / how have I said / recommended / suggested that you should test Insider builds on a VM? If the goal is to test Insider builds and WU can't deliver the upgrade on your PC, what is wrong in getting the upgrade on a VM, making an ISO and upgrading the physical PC with it?

    That's all I have said: if you can't get your PC upgraded, the VM method always works to get upgrade & ISO to be able to upgrade your PC for further Insider testing.



    Originally Posted by Mark Phelps
    Actually, I was hoping to create the ISO file using your excellent UUP-to-ISO tutorial, but got the following error messages in the process:



    The ESD method has not worked in several last builds. Current upgrades are delivered as UUP upgrades, not as ESD, therefore another tutorial and tool are needed: UUP to ISO - Create Bootable ISO from Windows 10 Build Upgrade Files - Windows 10 Installation Upgrade Tutorials

    Kari
    I'm sure I stated it badly, I apologise if you thought I intended any criticism of your self in this, Kari, I didn't.

    You gave perfectly valid advice on how to progress, to members who are unable to test due to failed upgrades on their hardware

    I stated that In my (often flawed) opinion that it may be generally redundant for Insiders to test Insider Program builds on VMs, as your experience indicates.

    And that also :

    I feel that it should be a test on a sample of the general population of machines, old, new, perfect and faulty, overclocked and underspecified, warts and all, and definitely never likely to be seen anywhere near the Microsoft Windows development labs, and not on a batch of behave-alike virtual machines with a small range of virtual components and devices that only exist in the VMs themselves.

    I cannot say how Microsoft's statistics on how the various upgrades succeed and fail are collected and analysed.

    By obtaining an upgrade or clean install by some unofficial route, such as from another machine (real or virtual), does this cause the statistics to become skewed, to the detriment of the analytical side of the program?

    Much of the recent development has been aimed at improving the effectiveness of the delivery and upgrade process, I would hope that by sidetracking that, it does not influence or delay progress in that direction.

    There again, no criticism, just my opinion. Tenforums is certainly an influential site - to the fifty-odd members onboard at the moment, there are over 4000 guests.
    Last edited by Brink; 22 Apr 2017 at 19:06. Reason: removed unneeded comments from quote
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  10.    22 Apr 2017 #170
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Posts : 939
    Windows 8.1, Win10Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Kari View Post
    The ESD method has not worked in several last builds. Current upgrades are delivered as UUP upgrades, not as ESD, therefore another tutorial and tool are needed: UUP to ISO - Create Bootable ISO from Windows 10 Build Upgrade Files - Windows 10 Installation Upgrade Tutorials

    Kari
    I read your original ISO tutorial about the ESD method not working anymore, which is why I decided to use your UUP-to-ISO tutorial -- and that is the one that generated the error messages I posted.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

 
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