Microsoft locks Ryzen and Kaby Lake users out of updates on Windows 7

sygnus21 said:

Well uh the last I checked, and anyone else checked, the "most widely used OS" was ummm..... Windows 7

So per you're statement, these items should be supported. Period. And honestly what manufacture wouldn't do that!!!. They're trying to make sales too.

The compatibility IS there! MS just refuses to honor it. Case in point - it's not like these CPU's don't run under Win 7/8/8.1 now. It's just that MS is suddenly telling end users the OS will no longer receiver updates of any kind "after" you install these processors. That said, it wouldn't surprise me if MS stealthily slipped in an OS update breaking these CPU's from the start. A BS tactic, but MS wouldn't be the first company to pull such a stunt - Apple Accused of Breaking FaceTime to Force Users Into iOS Upgrade

MS is supporting the OS on hardware that was available in 2015, the official end date of support. And from a legal point of view they have no obligation to continue update support for new hardware with that OS. Why would anyone want to run Win7 on a Ryzen is beyond my understand.

BunnyJ said:

MS is supporting the OS on hardware that was available in 2015, the official end date of support. And from a legal point of view they have no obligation to continue update support for new hardware with that OS. Why would anyone want to run Win7 on a Ryzen is beyond my understand.

Because they like Solitaire on W7 better ? Another generation of processors and that's only game you'd be able to play on it. I already tried to explain that new processor and system functions need to be routed in the kernel and that would require some rewriting. By same logic XP and all the way to DOS should be usable as each one was good/bad on it's own merit.

CountMike said:

Because they like Solitaire on W7 better ? Another generation of processors and that's only game you'd be able to play on it. I already tried to explain that new processor and system functions need to be routed in the kernel and that would require so rewriting. By same logic XP and all the way to DOS should be usable as each one was good/bad on it's own merit.

It's hard to convince some that doing this is a bit of work and MS will not make money from doing this work. And that's what they want to do is make money.

Secondly, if someone get a Ryzen they need a new motherboard that supports the AM4 socket. It's new and none of the old sockets will accept it. So right off of the bat you would be spending upwards of 400+ bucks on just the motherboard and processor. Oh and you might have to get DDR4 RAM.

At this stage it would only make sense to get a copy of Win10. I would want to make the most of that investment.

CountMike said:

Well yes, they should be compatible with W7 of course but that's not as easy to accomplish.

It's NOT a compatibility issue. The chips work on all OS's. The chip makers did noting wrong. It's MS disabling of OS updates on Windows 7 & 8 machines using these chips. It has nothing to do with compatibility, and everything to do with forcing users to Windows 10.

OilerNut said:

People need to think of this from a business side of view, not personal use.

Say a health care provider, or a utility company had a critical piece of software that has only been certified by the software company to run on Windows 7/8. To go to a product that is certified on Windows 10 would require new software and an upgrade process to go from the old to the new, as well as hardening the OS from a security point of view. The cost of all that could run into the millions.

Basically Microsoft is forcing companies to do this before the OS is even EOL. Microsoft still is offering mainstream support for Windows 8.1 until 2018, extended support until 2023. I am pretty sure the manufacturers won't be making the old motherboards or CPUs 1-2 years from now.

So yeah it is easy to tell your friends and family just to use Windows 10, for a company it's not so easy.

And for the record I am using Windows 10 and am fine with it, and working on implementing it in our workplace.

If you must run specific SW on a specific OS might as well stay on HW all of that is compatible on. It's not going to be any worse that it was at that time. Many are still using XP and HW made at that time. I know of a 386 running custom SW that includes OS and is used to control a wood sawmill. Nothing wrong with it, still works same as first day.

BunnyJ said:

MS is supporting the OS on hardware that was available in 2015, the official end date of support. And from a legal point of view they have no obligation to continue update support for new hardware with that OS. Why would anyone want to run Win7 on a Ryzen is beyond my understand.

The same reason some would rather use a crippled Win 10 OS by turning this, that, and everything under the sun off. Choice, fear, comfort.

Everyone isn't you and I, and don't have to think or see things the we do, or would like them to. Regardless, there's absolutely no reason for MS to be taking this stance other than forcing more Win 10 usage.

That said, I'm already on 10, see no reason to hang on to 7, but It doesn't change the fact I feel this is totally wrong and see no justification for it other than another path to a forced upgrade.

sygnus21 said:

It's NOT a compatibility issue. The chips work on all OS's. The chip makers did noting wrong. It's MS disabling of OS updates on Windows 7 & 8 machines using these chips. It has nothing to do with compatibility, and everything to do with forcing users to Windows 10.

I tried running XP on this system and it's a hard work just to get it going so-so. System have no support in drivers as well as no support for advanced HW features. All of that is waiting to happen to W7, will just loose so much performance so HW upgrade would become useless money pit.

ChaChaLaBoom said:

if peeps paid attention and microsoft stays true to their word we will be on 10 forever and just get new releases/builds of 10.

That is only true if MS wants to keep selling Windows AND (W10's market share keeps increasing OR revenues related to W10 keep increasing).

If peeps paid attention, they'd notice that MS drops/replaces products that aren't generating "enough" ROI.

BunnyJ said:

Why would you want to use an outdated OS on a new high powered processor?

For the same reason that has prevailed for the last ~35 years, improved performance.

jimbo45 said:

W7 though can still be used perfectly well in a VM if you insist on running it on the latest hardware. VM's on modern fast hardware have very small overheads so a perfectly viable solution.

Agreed.

My W7 VMs seem to perform identically to my physical machine, apart from:

• Boot time (at least twice as long)
• Certain tools that demand direct access to a graphics card

For information on the updates click the link and read the entire article at gHacks:

KB4012218, KB4012219: Windows Update processor generation detection

The March 2017 preview updates for Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 introduce Windows Update processor generation and hardware support detection.
Microsoft published KB4012218 for Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2, and KB4012219 for Windows 8.1 and Windows Server 2012 and 2012 R2 yesterday evening.
These previews are only available through the Microsoft Update Catalog, and only include non-security updates.
They are designed to give system administrators, and interested home users, time to test cumulative updates for the operating systems they are released for before they are pushed out through Windows Update on the next Patch Day.
What's particularly interesting about these two preview updates is that they introduce the detection of the device's processor generation and hardware support.
Both include the following entry:

Enabled detection of processor generation and hardware support when PC tries to scan or download updates through Windows Update.

As you may know, Microsoft announced some time ago that it would not support the latest generation of processors on older versions of Windows. To hammer this home even more, Microsoft revealed that it will block updates on older versions of Windows if the device was powered by a processor of the latest generation.
Test showed that this was not the case at the time of revelation. It appears now though, that the updates KB4012218 and KB4012219 introduce that functionality on Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 (and the server versions).
Tests need to be conducted to find out whether this is indeed the case when the release updates are made available though.
For now though, it seems like a good idea to avoid these patches if your Windows device uses a cpu of the latest generation, or if you plan to equip it with one in the future.