Page 7 of 14 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast
  1.    21 Mar 2017 #61
    Join Date : Jan 2014
    Oak Ridge TN, USA
    Posts : 24,523
    Windows 10 Pro x64

    Quote Originally Posted by sygnus21 View Post
    Well uh the last I checked, and anyone else checked, the "most widely used OS" was ummm..... Windows 7

    So per you're statement, these items should be supported. Period. And honestly what manufacture wouldn't do that!!!. They're trying to make sales too.

    The compatibility IS there! MS just refuses to honor it. Case in point - it's not like these CPU's don't run under Win 7/8/8.1 now. It's just that MS is suddenly telling end users the OS will no longer receiver updates of any kind "after" you install these processors. That said, it wouldn't surprise me if MS stealthily slipped in an OS update breaking these CPU's from the start. A BS tactic, but MS wouldn't be the first company to pull such a stunt - Apple Accused of Breaking FaceTime to Force Users Into iOS Upgrade
    MS is supporting the OS on hardware that was available in 2015, the official end date of support. And from a legal point of view they have no obligation to continue update support for new hardware with that OS. Why would anyone want to run Win7 on a Ryzen is beyond my understand.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  2.    21 Mar 2017 #62
    Join Date : Jul 2014
    Serbia
    Posts : 10,427
    W10 Insider + Linux

    Quote Originally Posted by BunnyJ View Post
    MS is supporting the OS on hardware that was available in 2015, the official end date of support. And from a legal point of view they have no obligation to continue update support for new hardware with that OS. Why would anyone want to run Win7 on a Ryzen is beyond my understand.
    Because they like Solitaire on W7 better ? Another generation of processors and that's only game you'd be able to play on it. I already tried to explain that new processor and system functions need to be routed in the kernel and that would require some rewriting. By same logic XP and all the way to DOS should be usable as each one was good/bad on it's own merit.
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  3.    21 Mar 2017 #63
    Join Date : Jan 2014
    Oak Ridge TN, USA
    Posts : 24,523
    Windows 10 Pro x64

    Quote Originally Posted by CountMike View Post
    Because they like Solitaire on W7 better ? Another generation of processors and that's only game you'd be able to play on it. I already tried to explain that new processor and system functions need to be routed in the kernel and that would require so rewriting. By same logic XP and all the way to DOS should be usable as each one was good/bad on it's own merit.
    It's hard to convince some that doing this is a bit of work and MS will not make money from doing this work. And that's what they want to do is make money.

    Secondly, if someone get a Ryzen they need a new motherboard that supports the AM4 socket. It's new and none of the old sockets will accept it. So right off of the bat you would be spending upwards of 400+ bucks on just the motherboard and processor. Oh and you might have to get DDR4 RAM.

    At this stage it would only make sense to get a copy of Win10. I would want to make the most of that investment.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  4.    21 Mar 2017 #64
    Join Date : Jun 2014
    USA
    Posts : 1,572
    Windows 10 Pro x64

    Quote Originally Posted by CountMike View Post
    Well yes, they should be compatible with W7 of course but that's not as easy to accomplish.
    It's NOT a compatibility issue. The chips work on all OS's. The chip makers did noting wrong. It's MS disabling of OS updates on Windows 7 & 8 machines using these chips. It has nothing to do with compatibility, and everything to do with forcing users to Windows 10.
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  5.    21 Mar 2017 #65
    Join Date : May 2016
    Posts : 257
    Windows 10

    People need to think of this from a business side of view, not personal use.

    Say a health care provider, or a utility company had a critical piece of software that has only been certified by the software company to run on Windows 7/8. To go to a product that is certified on Windows 10 would require new software and an upgrade process to go from the old to the new, as well as hardening the OS from a security point of view. The cost of all that could run into the millions.

    Basically Microsoft is forcing companies to do this before the OS is even EOL. Microsoft still is offering mainstream support for Windows 8.1 until 2018, extended support until 2023. I am pretty sure the manufacturers won't be making the old motherboards or CPUs 1-2 years from now.

    So yeah it is easy to tell your friends and family just to use Windows 10, for a company it's not so easy.

    And for the record I am using Windows 10 and am fine with it, and working on implementing it in our workplace.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  6.    21 Mar 2017 #66
    Join Date : Jul 2014
    Serbia
    Posts : 10,427
    W10 Insider + Linux

    Quote Originally Posted by OilerNut View Post
    People need to think of this from a business side of view, not personal use.

    Say a health care provider, or a utility company had a critical piece of software that has only been certified by the software company to run on Windows 7/8. To go to a product that is certified on Windows 10 would require new software and an upgrade process to go from the old to the new, as well as hardening the OS from a security point of view. The cost of all that could run into the millions.

    Basically Microsoft is forcing companies to do this before the OS is even EOL. Microsoft still is offering mainstream support for Windows 8.1 until 2018, extended support until 2023. I am pretty sure the manufacturers won't be making the old motherboards or CPUs 1-2 years from now.

    So yeah it is easy to tell your friends and family just to use Windows 10, for a company it's not so easy.

    And for the record I am using Windows 10 and am fine with it, and working on implementing it in our workplace.
    If you must run specific SW on a specific OS might as well stay on HW all of that is compatible on. It's not going to be any worse that it was at that time. Many are still using XP and HW made at that time. I know of a 386 running custom SW that includes OS and is used to control a wood sawmill. Nothing wrong with it, still works same as first day.
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  7.    21 Mar 2017 #67
    Join Date : Jun 2014
    USA
    Posts : 1,572
    Windows 10 Pro x64

    Quote Originally Posted by BunnyJ View Post
    MS is supporting the OS on hardware that was available in 2015, the official end date of support. And from a legal point of view they have no obligation to continue update support for new hardware with that OS. Why would anyone want to run Win7 on a Ryzen is beyond my understand.
    The same reason some would rather use a crippled Win 10 OS by turning this, that, and everything under the sun off. Choice, fear, comfort.

    Everyone isn't you and I, and don't have to think or see things the we do, or would like them to. Regardless, there's absolutely no reason for MS to be taking this stance other than forcing more Win 10 usage.

    That said, I'm already on 10, see no reason to hang on to 7, but It doesn't change the fact I feel this is totally wrong and see no justification for it other than another path to a forced upgrade.
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  8.    21 Mar 2017 #68
    Join Date : Jul 2014
    Serbia
    Posts : 10,427
    W10 Insider + Linux

    Quote Originally Posted by sygnus21 View Post
    It's NOT a compatibility issue. The chips work on all OS's. The chip makers did noting wrong. It's MS disabling of OS updates on Windows 7 & 8 machines using these chips. It has nothing to do with compatibility, and everything to do with forcing users to Windows 10.
    I tried running XP on this system and it's a hard work just to get it going so-so. System have no support in drivers as well as no support for advanced HW features. All of that is waiting to happen to W7, will just loose so much performance so HW upgrade would become useless money pit.
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  9.    21 Mar 2017 #69
    Join Date : Aug 2014
    Australia, Adelaide
    Posts : 1,557
    W7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), LM 18.2 MATE (64 bit), W10 Home (64 bit)

    Quote Originally Posted by ChaChaLaBoom View Post
    if peeps paid attention and microsoft stays true to their word we will be on 10 forever and just get new releases/builds of 10.
    That is only true if MS wants to keep selling Windows AND (W10's market share keeps increasing OR revenues related to W10 keep increasing).

    If peeps paid attention, they'd notice that MS drops/replaces products that aren't generating "enough" ROI.

    Quote Originally Posted by BunnyJ View Post
    Why would you want to use an outdated OS on a new high powered processor?
    For the same reason that has prevailed for the last ~35 years, improved performance.

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    W7 though can still be used perfectly well in a VM if you insist on running it on the latest hardware. VM's on modern fast hardware have very small overheads so a perfectly viable solution.
    Agreed.

    My W7 VMs seem to perform identically to my physical machine, apart from:
    • Boot time (at least twice as long)
    • Certain tools that demand direct access to a graphics card
    Last edited by lehnerus2000; 21 Mar 2017 at 19:15. Reason: Additional
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  10.    22 Mar 2017 #70
    Join Date : Feb 2015
    Bamberg Germany
    Posts : 17,552
    Win10 Pro, Win10 Pro N, Win10 Home, Win10 Pro Insider Fast Ring, Windows 8.1 Pro, Ubuntu

    For information on the updates click the link and read the entire article at gHacks:

    KB4012218, KB4012219: Windows Update processor generation detection

    The March 2017 preview updates for Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 introduce Windows Update processor generation and hardware support detection.
    Microsoft published KB4012218 for Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2, and KB4012219 for Windows 8.1 and Windows Server 2012 and 2012 R2 yesterday evening.
    These previews are only available through the Microsoft Update Catalog, and only include non-security updates.
    They are designed to give system administrators, and interested home users, time to test cumulative updates for the operating systems they are released for before they are pushed out through Windows Update on the next Patch Day.
    What's particularly interesting about these two preview updates is that they introduce the detection of the device's processor generation and hardware support.
    Both include the following entry:
    Enabled detection of processor generation and hardware support when PC tries to scan or download updates through Windows Update.
    As you may know, Microsoft announced some time ago that it would not support the latest generation of processors on older versions of Windows. To hammer this home even more, Microsoft revealed that it will block updates on older versions of Windows if the device was powered by a processor of the latest generation.
    Test showed that this was not the case at the time of revelation. It appears now though, that the updates KB4012218 and KB4012219 introduce that functionality on Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 (and the server versions).
    Tests need to be conducted to find out whether this is indeed the case when the release updates are made available though.
    For now though, it seems like a good idea to avoid these patches if your Windows device uses a cpu of the latest generation, or if you plan to equip it with one in the future.
      My ComputersSystem Spec

 
Page 7 of 14 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast


Similar Threads
Thread Forum
Kaby Lake i7-7700k + H100i v2 ?s
Hi there, Just got a new build put together...been using AMD for quite some time now, before that Intel, now back to Intel. It has been many generations since I ran Intel so I am not too familiar with temps and all...I know the 7700k runs warm...
PC Custom Builds and Overclocking
MSI unleashes more than 30 new Kaby Lake and AMD Ryzen motherboards
Keep reading! MSI unleashes more than 30 new Kaby Lake and AMD Ryzen motherboards | PCWorld
Windows 10 News
Intel prepares Skylake-X and Kaby Lake-X
According to Digitimes, Intel is preparing to launch their next gen high-end processors in Q3 2017, which is most likely at Gamescom during August in Germany. Price range could be NT$15,000 to NT$57,000, that's $468 to $1,780 US dollars. Both types...
PC Custom Builds and Overclocking
Windows 10 and Kaby Lake+
Skylake users given 18 months to upgrade to Windows 10 | Ars Technica Help me understand how this works? I have a 6700k with w7 and w10. How does Microsoft know which CPU one uses with Windows? Would, for example, a W7 computer with a 2600k...
Drivers and Hardware
Intel ships Kaby Lake chips, pointing to PC availability in few months
Read more: Intel ships Kaby Lake chips, pointing to PC availability in a few months | PCWorld
Windows 10 News
Our Sites
Site Links
About Us
Windows 10 Forums is an independent web site and has not been authorized, sponsored, or otherwise approved by Microsoft Corporation. "Windows 10" and related materials are trademarks of Microsoft Corp.

© Designer Media Ltd
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:22.
Find Us
Twitter Facebook Google+ Ten Forums iOS App Ten Forums Android App



Windows 10 Forums