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  1.    28 Mar 2017 #121
    Join Date : Feb 2016
    Posts : 44
    Windows 10

    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    So the MS lied about the W7 being supported until 2020.
    Most licenses are for the original motherboard. Change the mobo, you're supposed to purchase Windows again. Since Ryzen or Kaby Lake did not exist in the Win 7-8 era, a new license is required. Some licenses, like Enterprise, should not require a new license, but we'll see.
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  2.    28 Mar 2017 #122
    Join Date : Jun 2014
    USA
    Posts : 1,585
    Windows 10 Pro x64

    Quote Originally Posted by Jody Thornton View Post
    I have a feeling (now I could be wrong), but I have a feeling he was throwing out the term "installing software" in haste; the same way someone blurts out something inappropriate when they're angry. I "think" what he meant to convey was that Microsoft might be closing up a lot of customization options. A couple of things (though anecdotal) that might be worth considering.

    First off, if Microsoft is making things difficult to customize in Windows 10, in an effort to persuade users to accept our product as it is, then that would NOT be unprecedented. Mozilla is in that same process as we speak, by deprecating XUL and conventional extensions in Firefox. The new web extensions would not allow a great deal of UI customization that Firefox users are presently accustomed to. Mozilla's response is that since security is a concern, we need to batten the hatches, so to speak.

    Over at MSFN, the user "EricC" is using some third party utilities, and other tricks to make Windows 10 in to a really beautiful workable desktop. It really is nice. His daily driver is Windows 8.1, but he wanted to see just how productive for his tastes he could make Windows 10 into. But every update cycle, a good deal of his changes are blown out like a hurricane. He has to reapply all of his customizations again each time. This doesn't happen on Windows 8x. Now suffice it to say, the gentleman is a developer, and he knows what he's doing, but for someone who wants to customize his desktop in such a manner so that it be productive for his/her needs (on a long term basis), Windows 10 hasn't worked out so well because of the new update model.

    So could it not be that Microsoft is worrying none about that sort of user (since we all agree that in the medium to long term, Microsoft wants to deprecate the Explorer/Desktop shell), and focusing on a simpler (Metro/New UI) model that will be easier to maintain, and perhaps more secure, but will be less customizable? I mean, if the Explorer shell's days are numbered, will we even need developers for it (other than niche applications)?
    MS is simply trying to provide an OS that works for everyone. It's when people try to tweak the OS back to "Windows 7" or do crazy tweaks to run old outdated software or hardware do issues arise.

    As noted by many, I've yet to see the crazy issues others post about in claiming Windows 10 broke their system. Nearly 90 percent of these issues when looked at comes from misunderstandings, improper tweaks (to include registry), and disabling stuff without proper knowledge. When things go awry, MS gets blamed.

    Also add that MS is not responsible for supporting old outdated programs and hardware. That belongs to the user to insure they have to latest hardware/software commensurate with the latest OS. Nothing new here.

    As to the "installing software" statement, yeah is was brash and inviting nothing but an unnecessary argument.

    Peace
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  3.    28 Mar 2017 #123

    Quote Originally Posted by lx07 View Post
    It would be interesting to know if that works.

    I have a feeling it wouldn't as the CPU details are passed from the hypervisor to the guest so you'd still be stuck without updates. Perhaps you can fudge the CPUid somehow.

    I don't have the hardware to test though alas.
    Well the thing is if you used the Windows 7 that you upgrade to WIndows 10 in the VM it won't activate because the upgrade on allows you to have one of them activate either Windows 10 or Windows 7 not both
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  4.    28 Mar 2017 #124
    Join Date : Jul 2014
    Serbia
    Posts : 10,446
    W10 Insider + Linux

    Quote Originally Posted by bobad View Post
    Most licenses are for the original motherboard. Change the mobo, you're supposed to purchase Windows again. Since Ryzen or Kaby Lake did not exist in the Win 7-8 era, a new license is required. Some licenses, like Enterprise, should not require a new license, but we'll see.
    Well, not exactly, Retail license was always transferable and in some cases OEM too. Problem is that Ryzen and Kabby lake did not exist at the time W7 was conceived and nobody can make sure if something non existent at that time would work satisfactory and so can not be covered by any promise to update. That of course doesn't mean that MS couldn't keep on updating such systems but it's entirely within their discretion rights. There are many analogies to other things.
    One analogy comes to mind. My '70 Mustang was made to run on 109 octane gas, (it said so right on the gas cap). Few years later unleaded gas of 87 octane became mandatory and 110+ octane became unavailable. What was Ford supposed to do, manufacture unlawful fuel even as they had obligation to keep spare parts for at least 10 years along with servicing capabilities (full support) ?
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  5.    28 Mar 2017 #125

    Quote Originally Posted by sygnus21 View Post
    MS is simply trying to provide an OS that works for everyone. It's when people try to tweak the OS back to "Windows 7" or do crazy tweaks to run old outdated software or hardware do issues arise.

    Peace
    Good afternoon. I hear that, except the person I speak of seems to be above average, and maybe above average needs. I can see his point. some good reading here when you have time (because it does provide a well-articulated viewpoint, which has some merit. "EricC" is the person I'm referring to.

    Have a good day.


    Whats a Reasonable Windows Update Strategy Going Forward? - Windows 10 - MSFN
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  6.    28 Mar 2017 #126
    Join Date : Jul 2014
    Serbia
    Posts : 10,446
    W10 Insider + Linux

    Wasn't that NoelC ?
    Anyway, his points are everybody's wishes, weather they know it or not. But.... here is a question of NOT supporting and not how. Sure, who doesn't want his system to be stable and not damaged by wrong update ? Who wouldn't want proper lifetime support and nothing ever to go wrong ?
    They also talk about W7 for instance that "Just works" but that is also not the truth, it had many "growing pains" with Vista being just worst and first part of it.
    W8 wasn't devoid of things like that either and still isn't a case of "just works". Maybe some utopian OS will get there at some point, just maybe.
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  7.    28 Mar 2017 #127

    Quote Originally Posted by sygnus21 View Post
    As noted by others, this is an extreme view of what was actually stated.

    Again, where not talking about the everyday user but the tweak artists who go beyond the OS's intended operating parameters and then wonder why the OS crashes. Installing software isn't going beyond those parameters. If we have to explain that, than that says we're just looking to argue.

    Hi there

    Some of these "So called Tweak artists" are quite valuable --by doing things and producing results far beyond what the original designers of the OS had intended -- so that the next "Iteration" of the OS can include a load of these improvements.

    I hope these so called Tinkerers keep on tinkering.

    Just look at Cars for example - loads of mainstream improvements have come from the so called "Tinkerers".

    That doesn't imply that everybody willy nilly should do this - and certainly if you DO do it then you should be 100% aware of what to do if you break something and how to fix it (e.g restore or whatever).

    A Great feature of Windows is that it IS "Tinkerable" --possibly nothing like the extent you can do it with Linux but still eminently "tinkerable".

    So innovators and experimenters --please keep doing your stuff -- the improvements will certainly be propagated to future updates / releases.

    Cheers
    jimbo
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  8.    28 Mar 2017 #128

    Quote Originally Posted by CountMike View Post
    Wasn't that NoelC ?
    .
    Yes, my bad. I'm sorry about that
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  9.    28 Mar 2017 #129
    Join Date : Jun 2014
    USA
    Posts : 1,585
    Windows 10 Pro x64

    Quote Originally Posted by Jody Thornton View Post
    I hear that, except the person I speak of seems to be above average, and maybe above average needs.

    There's always going to be exceptions to rule, but for the most part they are in the minority and not the majority of which we speak of. I think we're tying to make an argument of the minor where the major is the real issue.

    And no one said there aren't legitimate issues, heck I've had them; We're simply talking about the majority which are user created. How many times have we seen the "Windows 10 hosed my system" only to find it was user error?

    Peace
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  10.    28 Mar 2017 #130
    Join Date : Jun 2014
    USA
    Posts : 1,585
    Windows 10 Pro x64

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    Some of these "So called Tweak artists" are quite valuable --by doing things and producing results far beyond what the original designers of the OS had intended -- so that the next "Iteration" of the OS can include a load of these improvements.
    Once again, a misrepresentation of what's actually being discussed. It's in the same vein as "are you saying don't install software". Of course we need tinkerers and what not.... innovation can not proceed without it! That's not the point.

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    That doesn't imply that everybody willy nilly should do this - and certainly if you DO do it then you should be 100% aware of what to do if you break something and how to fix it (e.g restore or whatever).
    This ^ is actually the point
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