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  1.    10 Sep 2016 #11
    Join Date : Jan 2014
    Oak Ridge TN, USA
    Posts : 24,523
    Windows 10 Pro x64

    Quote Originally Posted by SmileyPK View Post
    The problem has nothing to do with the amount of people in the Insider program. The problem is that Microsoft itself is doing almost no testing. It's very well-documented that Microsoft fired its testing staff in 2013 and 2014.

    Relying solely on un-paid people who largely don't even put the Insider builds on their production machines is a mistake, and it shows.
    MS still is testing and they are not just using insiders as testers. MS goes through a venting process to determine which builds the drop for insiders to check out.. just who decides and what criteria do they use.. the test things out first.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  2.    10 Sep 2016 #12
    Join Date : Dec 2013
    Sydney, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts : 10,174
    Windows 10 IoT

    Quote Originally Posted by Cliff S View Post
    Not everyone had that, mostly it was the users that clean installed the AU, instead of just updating.
    I will never understand the idea, why some feel they need to do a clean install after every major upgrade anyhow.
    After Microsoft tightened the screws on driver signing, what worked before, will still work if upgraded, if clean installed, and the driver developer, slopped, on getting the driver certificate updated, well.... that's the hardware manufacturer's fault, NOT Microsoft's. They were warned. Just like Samsung's magician driver and the AHCI problem.
    My drive showed up as RAW after doing the upgrade. All was fine on a clean install though.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  3.    10 Sep 2016 #13
    Join Date : Dec 2013
    Sydney, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts : 10,174
    Windows 10 IoT

    IMHO, they dropped the ball. Way to many glitches are getting released in the consumer releases. One has to wonder how is it possible that they do not show up in the insider builds, but then affect so many PC's when that build hits consumers? Last minute changes are not the way to go.

    Just about every insider build has a list of fixes and an even longer list of new issues in the release notes? Stop adding new features already and fix what's broken. Finish moving everything over to settings from control panel. Etc. Make Windows 10, Windows 10, get rid of the leftovers from Windows 8.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  4.    10 Sep 2016 #14
    Join Date : Jun 2014
    Posts : 5,446
    Windows 10 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by alphanumeric View Post
    IMHO, they dropped the ball. Way to many glitches are getting released in the consumer releases. One has to wonder how is it possible that they do not show up in the insider builds, but then affect so many PC's when that build hits consumers? Last minute changes are not the way to go.

    Just about every insider build has a list of fixes and an even longer list of new issues in the release notes? Stop adding new features already and fix what's broken. Finish moving everything over to settings from control panel. Etc. Make Windows 10, Windows 10, get rid of the leftovers from Windows 8.
    I totally agree. Especially the part about last minute changes.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  5.    10 Sep 2016 #15
    Join Date : Jul 2015
    Kenner
    Posts : 218
    Windows 10 Home x64

    I am not an insider but I provide the data to MS. It's easy to complain but more important to be part of the solution.
    Last edited by gtspeck; 10 Sep 2016 at 17:24.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  6.    10 Sep 2016 #16
    Join Date : Jun 2015
    UK
    Posts : 1,890
    Windows 10 Home x64 (Laptop), Windows 10 Pro x64 (Desktop)

    Quote Originally Posted by alphanumeric View Post
    IMHO, they dropped the ball. Way to many glitches are getting released in the consumer releases. One has to wonder how is it possible that they do not show up in the insider builds, but then affect so many PC's when that build hits consumers? Last minute changes are not the way to go.

    Just about every insider build has a list of fixes and an even longer list of new issues in the release notes? Stop adding new features already and fix what's broken. Finish moving everything over to settings from control panel. Etc. Make Windows 10, Windows 10, get rid of the leftovers from Windows 8.
    If only Microsoft followed best software QA practice. They do have ISO software accreditation don't they? Maybe its time for a quality audit?
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  7.    10 Sep 2016 #17
    Join Date : May 2016
    Posts : 256
    Windows 10

    I think the huge problem is that Microsoft dumped a bunch of the internal QA team, relying on the public to beta test their software.

    Sure the public does help testing builds on a wide variety of hardware and software, but I would say only a very very slim minority actually dive deep into it and do any kind of real testing. When it comes to enterprise level stuff I am willing to bet it's not being tested at all, private enterprise isn't going to waste their time and money on testing for Microsoft. Also the internal QA team would have more experience and access to more debugging tools and know what exactly got change and be able to stress test/kick the crap out of it.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  8.    10 Sep 2016 #18
    Join Date : Feb 2015
    Bamberg Germany
    Posts : 16,959
    Win10 Pro, Win10 Pro N, Win10 Home, Win10 Pro Insider Fast Ring, Windows 8.1 Pro, Ubuntu

    Quote Originally Posted by OilerNut View Post
    I think the huge problem is that Microsoft dumped a bunch of the internal QA team, relying on the public to beta test their software.

    Sure the public does help testing builds on a wide variety of hardware and software, but I would say only a very very slim minority actually dive deep into it and do any kind of real testing. When it comes to enterprise level stuff I am willing to bet it's not being tested at all, private enterprise isn't going to waste their time and money on testing for Microsoft. Also the internal QA team would have more experience and access to more debugging tools and know what exactly got change and be able to stress test/kick the crap out of it.
    Not true, knock yourself out and have some fun too: Debugging Tools for Windows (WinDbg, KD, CDB, NTSD) - Windows 10 hardware dev
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  9.    10 Sep 2016 #19
    Join Date : Dec 2013
    Sydney, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts : 10,174
    Windows 10 IoT

    Windows 10 is ending up to be a constant work in progress. It's a never ending fix it, break it, fix it, break it? Don't get me wrong, I like Windows 10 very much. I just wish they would actually finish what they started, then roll in the new features. Get control panel all moved into settings for example.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  10.    10 Sep 2016 #20
    Join Date : Jan 2014
    Oak Ridge TN, USA
    Posts : 24,523
    Windows 10 Pro x64

    Quote Originally Posted by alphanumeric View Post
    Windows 10 is ending up to be a constant work in progress. It's a never ending fix it, break it, fix it, break it? Don't get me wrong, I like Windows 10 very much. I just wish they would actually finish what they started, then roll in the new features. Get control panel all moved into settings for example.
    The ever changing life cycle was the plan with 10,, at least that was/is my understanding. The big difference is that with previous versions of Windows the updates were few and very far between but now they're almost non stop, insider builds. FWIW, I like this approach more than the previous one. It was painful to wait a year or more to get major updates.

    And.. so far I'm not having any issues.,.. luck??
      My ComputerSystem Spec

 
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