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  1.    05 Sep 2016 #181
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Posts : 2,378
    W10 Pro + W10 Preview

    Kari.
    So knowledgeable yet modest enough to admit even you can come unstuck testing Insider O/S,s.
    I fully concur with your above references trying to apportion blame on M$ is nonsense, fully knowing its Beta with all its involving risks.
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  2.    05 Sep 2016 #182
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    A Finnish expat in Germany
    Posts : 12,689
    Windows 10 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by dencal View Post
    Kari.
    So knowledgeable yet modest enough to admit even you can come unstuck testing Insider O/S,s.
    I fully concur with your above references trying to apportion blame on M$ is nonsense, fully knowing its Beta with all its involving risks.
    Just one correction: I've never been known as a modest person. Quite an opposite: my vanity is limitless as my ex-wife summarized it
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  3.    05 Sep 2016 #183
    Join Date : Feb 2014
    Posts : 9,144
    Windows 10 Professional

    Having said all that, ......
    ...... this Build is still quite poor in numerous ways;

    So, Dona, ......

    "On with the tour"?
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  4.    05 Sep 2016 #184
    Join Date : Dec 2015
    Posts : 5,459
    Windows10

    I fully accept there are risks. My gripe is that GLARING bugs get through eg the power button failing on 14905. Now we have issues with personalisation menu etc. These were working fine before but they got broken. My gripe is MS know about this but still issue the release.

    This is not justifiable in my opinion. Telling people like me to get out of the Fast Lane is not the answer. Even as Insiders we should expect a reasonable level of quality and service. I believe MS are failing to meet that now.

    IMO, we should feedback to MS that they need to raise their game - I am certainly going to do so.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  5.    05 Sep 2016 #185
    Join Date : Jul 2014
    Serbia
    Posts : 10,193
    W10 Insider + Linux

    Maybe they are just trying to keep us on our toes ?
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  6.    05 Sep 2016 #186
    Join Date : Jan 2015
    Posts : 1,218
    Windows 10 and windows insider

    Quote Originally Posted by Kari View Post
    Although I now had to go back to previous build, I must say I disagree a bit. My issue is a typical example why we have Fast and Slow rings; if you are not willing to risk using Fast Ring finding it too unstable, you can opt in to Slow Ring.
    I agree with you, Kari, as I believe that's what we have chosen to do!
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  7.    05 Sep 2016 #187
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    A Finnish expat in Germany
    Posts : 12,689
    Windows 10 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by cereberus View Post
    I fully accept there are risks. My gripe is that GLARING bugs get through eg the power button failing on 14905. Now we have issues with personalisation menu etc. These were working fine before but they got broken. My gripe is MS know about this but still issue the release.

    This is not justifiable in my opinion. Telling people like me to get out of the Fast Lane is not the answer. Even as Insiders we should expect a reasonable level of quality and service. I believe MS are failing to meet that now.

    IMO, we should feedback to MS that they need to raise their game - I am certainly going to do so.
    So basically you are saying, demanding that Fast ring Insider builds should be 100% working builds that let you test completely ready and working Windows and its features before their public release, that if something is not working in these preview test builds, we should complain?

    I'm sorry but I very strongly disagree.

    It might be that due my non-native English I am not able to say this clear enough: if any user is unhappy with Insider program in general and Fast ring in particular, he / she should opt out. A beta program does not work like in these imaginary dreams: "Yes, I would like to participate in beta testing your product but I demand it meets my requirements! It must be a 100% fully working product without any issues.".
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  8.    05 Sep 2016 #188
    Join Date : Jul 2014
    Serbia
    Posts : 10,193
    W10 Insider + Linux

    Quote Originally Posted by Kari View Post
    So basically you are saying, demanding that Fast ring Insider builds should be 100% working builds that let you test completely ready and working Windows and its features before their public release, that if something is not working in these preview test builds, we should complain?

    I'm sorry but I very strongly disagree.

    It might be that due my non-native English I am not able to say this clear enough: if any user is unhappy with Insider program in general and Fast ring in particular, he / she should opt out. A beta program does not work like in these imaginary dreams: "Yes, I would like to participate in beta testing your product but I demand it meets my requirements! It must be a 100% fully working product without any issues.".
    Yes but that wouldn't be testing !!
    What I would like to hear as WHY some features stopped working, the likes of non working Update history in 14905 and non working color choosing in 14915. Those two for instance were not in a change log like some other possible problems were. Snafus with drivers and their APIs are more or less self explanatory.
    I'm not stranger to danger but like to get into it with at least one eye open.
    In other words, better two way communication would be welcome and even more beneficial to all parties concerned. That's the way I did it when working on a project that involved whole corporation.
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  9.    05 Sep 2016 #189
    Join Date : Jan 2014
    Oak Ridge TN, USA
    Posts : 24,523
    Windows 10 Pro x64

    Quote Originally Posted by cereberus View Post
    I fully accept there are risks. My gripe is that GLARING bugs get through eg the power button failing on 14905. Now we have issues with personalisation menu etc. These were working fine before but they got broken. My gripe is MS know about this but still issue the release.

    This is not justifiable in my opinion. Telling people like me to get out of the Fast Lane is not the answer. Even as Insiders we should expect a reasonable level of quality and service. I believe MS are failing to meet that now.

    IMO, we should feedback to MS that they need to raise their game - I am certainly going to do so.
    Honestly, I think that either your expectations on the build quality are way too high and/or you don't fully understand what is entailed in this type of testing.

    From what Gabe had indicated they were receiving lots of complaints from other insiders that the fast lane wasn't fast enough for them and guess what?? They speeded it up a lot. Also he told us that there would be a lot more bugs to deal with when this happens. And we now get more bugs. IMO these are far from glaring bugs. They're the type you get when you see the OS in mid stream and you get the builds.. well fast(two ore more a month).

    There is no guarantee that the insider builds should be more bug free. IT's up to us to test out new features and spot bugs they haven't found, yet. In addition they point out the problems so reporting any of them is a bit counter productive IMO.

    My 2c..
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  10.    05 Sep 2016 #190
    Join Date : Jan 2014
    Oak Ridge TN, USA
    Posts : 24,523
    Windows 10 Pro x64

    Quote Originally Posted by CountMike View Post
    Yes but that wouldn't be testing !!
    What I would like to hear as WHY some features stopped working, the likes of non working Update history in 14905 and non working color choosing in 14915. Those two for instance were not in a change log like some other possible problems were. Snafus with drivers and their APIs are more or less self explanatory.
    I'm not stranger to danger but like to get into it with at least one eye open.
    In other words, better two way communication would be welcome and even more beneficial to all parties concerned. That's the way I did it when working on a project that involved whole corporation.
    To me it's not mysterious why that occurred. A sub program was in mid change and the build was dropped and the code in that program was not fully de-bugged. No more.. no less. I think they make an assumption that people that are in the insiders program have some pervious experience with the IT industry and they would understand that.

    Edit: And that doesn't mean that you or anyone shouldn't be in the insider program. I meant that a deeper understanding of how things like this are done is really a big help in order to fully understand what the testing process is about. I hope that's a bit clear,, if not I can try to clarify my thoughts more.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

 
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