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  1. Joined : Oct 2014
    Posts : 1,454
    W10 Pro + W10 Preview
       05 Sep 2016 #181

    Kari.
    So knowledgeable yet modest enough to admit even you can come unstuck testing Insider O/S,s.
    I fully concur with your above references trying to apportion blame on M$ is nonsense, fully knowing its Beta with all its involving risks.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  2. Joined : Oct 2013
    A Finnish ex-pat in Germany
    Posts : 9,575
    Windows 10 Pro
       05 Sep 2016 #182

    dencal said: View Post
    Kari.
    So knowledgeable yet modest enough to admit even you can come unstuck testing Insider O/S,s.
    I fully concur with your above references trying to apportion blame on M$ is nonsense, fully knowing its Beta with all its involving risks.
    Just one correction: I've never been known as a modest person. Quite an opposite: my vanity is limitless as my ex-wife summarized it
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3.    05 Sep 2016 #183

    Having said all that, ......
    ...... this Build is still quite poor in numerous ways;

    So, Dona, ......

    "On with the tour"?
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  4. Joined : Dec 2015
    Posts : 2,442
    Windows10
       05 Sep 2016 #184

    I fully accept there are risks. My gripe is that GLARING bugs get through eg the power button failing on 14905. Now we have issues with personalisation menu etc. These were working fine before but they got broken. My gripe is MS know about this but still issue the release.

    This is not justifiable in my opinion. Telling people like me to get out of the Fast Lane is not the answer. Even as Insiders we should expect a reasonable level of quality and service. I believe MS are failing to meet that now.

    IMO, we should feedback to MS that they need to raise their game - I am certainly going to do so.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  5. Joined : Jul 2014
    Serbia
    Posts : 6,972
    All kinds
       05 Sep 2016 #185

    Maybe they are just trying to keep us on our toes ?
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  6. Joined : Jan 2015
    Posts : 598
    Windows 10 and windows 8.1
       05 Sep 2016 #186

    Kari said: View Post
    Although I now had to go back to previous build, I must say I disagree a bit. My issue is a typical example why we have Fast and Slow rings; if you are not willing to risk using Fast Ring finding it too unstable, you can opt in to Slow Ring.
    I agree with you, Kari, as I believe that's what we have chosen to do!
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  7. Joined : Oct 2013
    A Finnish ex-pat in Germany
    Posts : 9,575
    Windows 10 Pro
       05 Sep 2016 #187

    cereberus said: View Post
    I fully accept there are risks. My gripe is that GLARING bugs get through eg the power button failing on 14905. Now we have issues with personalisation menu etc. These were working fine before but they got broken. My gripe is MS know about this but still issue the release.

    This is not justifiable in my opinion. Telling people like me to get out of the Fast Lane is not the answer. Even as Insiders we should expect a reasonable level of quality and service. I believe MS are failing to meet that now.

    IMO, we should feedback to MS that they need to raise their game - I am certainly going to do so.
    So basically you are saying, demanding that Fast ring Insider builds should be 100% working builds that let you test completely ready and working Windows and its features before their public release, that if something is not working in these preview test builds, we should complain?

    I'm sorry but I very strongly disagree.

    It might be that due my non-native English I am not able to say this clear enough: if any user is unhappy with Insider program in general and Fast ring in particular, he / she should opt out. A beta program does not work like in these imaginary dreams: "Yes, I would like to participate in beta testing your product but I demand it meets my requirements! It must be a 100% fully working product without any issues.".
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  8. Joined : Jul 2014
    Serbia
    Posts : 6,972
    All kinds
       05 Sep 2016 #188

    Kari said: View Post
    So basically you are saying, demanding that Fast ring Insider builds should be 100% working builds that let you test completely ready and working Windows and its features before their public release, that if something is not working in these preview test builds, we should complain?

    I'm sorry but I very strongly disagree.

    It might be that due my non-native English I am not able to say this clear enough: if any user is unhappy with Insider program in general and Fast ring in particular, he / she should opt out. A beta program does not work like in these imaginary dreams: "Yes, I would like to participate in beta testing your product but I demand it meets my requirements! It must be a 100% fully working product without any issues.".
    Yes but that wouldn't be testing !!
    What I would like to hear as WHY some features stopped working, the likes of non working Update history in 14905 and non working color choosing in 14915. Those two for instance were not in a change log like some other possible problems were. Snafus with drivers and their APIs are more or less self explanatory.
    I'm not stranger to danger but like to get into it with at least one eye open.
    In other words, better two way communication would be welcome and even more beneficial to all parties concerned. That's the way I did it when working on a project that involved whole corporation.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  9. Joined : Jan 2014
    Oak Ridge TN, USA
    Posts : 23,939
    Windows 10 Pro x64
       05 Sep 2016 #189

    cereberus said: View Post
    I fully accept there are risks. My gripe is that GLARING bugs get through eg the power button failing on 14905. Now we have issues with personalisation menu etc. These were working fine before but they got broken. My gripe is MS know about this but still issue the release.

    This is not justifiable in my opinion. Telling people like me to get out of the Fast Lane is not the answer. Even as Insiders we should expect a reasonable level of quality and service. I believe MS are failing to meet that now.

    IMO, we should feedback to MS that they need to raise their game - I am certainly going to do so.
    Honestly, I think that either your expectations on the build quality are way too high and/or you don't fully understand what is entailed in this type of testing.

    From what Gabe had indicated they were receiving lots of complaints from other insiders that the fast lane wasn't fast enough for them and guess what?? They speeded it up a lot. Also he told us that there would be a lot more bugs to deal with when this happens. And we now get more bugs. IMO these are far from glaring bugs. They're the type you get when you see the OS in mid stream and you get the builds.. well fast(two ore more a month).

    There is no guarantee that the insider builds should be more bug free. IT's up to us to test out new features and spot bugs they haven't found, yet. In addition they point out the problems so reporting any of them is a bit counter productive IMO.

    My 2c..
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  10. Joined : Jan 2014
    Oak Ridge TN, USA
    Posts : 23,939
    Windows 10 Pro x64
       05 Sep 2016 #190

    CountMike said: View Post
    Yes but that wouldn't be testing !!
    What I would like to hear as WHY some features stopped working, the likes of non working Update history in 14905 and non working color choosing in 14915. Those two for instance were not in a change log like some other possible problems were. Snafus with drivers and their APIs are more or less self explanatory.
    I'm not stranger to danger but like to get into it with at least one eye open.
    In other words, better two way communication would be welcome and even more beneficial to all parties concerned. That's the way I did it when working on a project that involved whole corporation.
    To me it's not mysterious why that occurred. A sub program was in mid change and the build was dropped and the code in that program was not fully de-bugged. No more.. no less. I think they make an assumption that people that are in the insiders program have some pervious experience with the IT industry and they would understand that.

    Edit: And that doesn't mean that you or anyone shouldn't be in the insider program. I meant that a deeper understanding of how things like this are done is really a big help in order to fully understand what the testing process is about. I hope that's a bit clear,, if not I can try to clarify my thoughts more.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


 
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