Windows 10: Piecing together the Windows as a Service puzzle for Windows 10

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  1.    18 May 2015 #131

    alphanumeric said: View Post
    Lots of companies have legacy hardware/software that will only run on a specific OS and or specific PC hardware. If that PC/terminal is isolated from the Internet its no big deal. To upgrade everything may be cost prohibitive, if even possible. The company I worked for had some very custom hardware and custom proprietary software. You were pretty well locked in.
    And those companies won't be upgrading to Windows 10 on those machines, because obviously, the software or hardware wouldn't work in Windows 10 if it requires that old version. Going forward, app developers will have to understand that they can't simply rely on users staying at an old rev, so they don't have to fix their bugs. Customers put pressure on developers to write better software when running that software becomes painful. That's what happened with UAC.
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  2. Posts : 446
    Windows 7 Ultimate 64 Bit and VM
       18 May 2015 #132

    I have decided as Windows 10 has no value for me whatsoever I'll be sticking with Windows 7. Windows 10 is something that I plain don't need as it works in a way I don't want or need too.
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  3. Posts : 1,467
    W7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), LM 18.1 MATE (64 bit), W10IP VM, W10 Home
       18 May 2015 #133

    Mystere said: View Post
    You cannot estimate the performance based on a totally different model.
    If they use the same coders then we can easily estimate their future performance of their coding.

    Some software companies/products/programmers have good reputations.
    Other software companies/products tend to be "crash happy" and require constant patches and security fixes (I'm not referring to MS).

    IMO, MS does a very good job when it comes to OS patches and Security fixes.
    However, I only installed one bad update during the past few years.
    It only caused some minor issue (for me) and I simply used my backup OS image.
    OTOH, if I were an "average" user and I had my machine stop working correctly, I'd be pretty upset.

    MS needs W10 to work "perfectly" out-of-the-box.
    W10 needs to perform for every user, the same way W7 performed for me when I installed it (i.e. reliable, solid and usable).
    After the W8 series fiasco, any W10 issue (from trivial to disastrous) will generate negative commentary on the TV and Internet.

    Mystere said: View Post
    And, I disagree. It will in fact virtually eliminate the possibility of a dodgy update making it to anyone other than early adopter/fast ring users. When millions of people are on the fast ring, it will be all but impossible for an untested scenario to rear its head when it gets to the slow ring. No, it's not strictly impossible, but so unlikely as to be almost unheard of. The only way it could happen would be if someone released an update to the slow ring by accident, and that seems unlikely.
    That is the same picture that OSS supporters paint, when talking about OSS.

    I agree that in principle that more "looking" should lead to the faster identification/location of bugs.
    I'm not sure Heartbleed, POODLE and FREAK support that proposition.

    I wouldn't be surprised to discover that there isn't much difference between the "actual bug" and/or "detected bug" rates of Proprietary Software and OSS (excluding known outliers).
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  4.    18 May 2015 #134

    lehnerus2000 said: View Post
    If they use the same coders then we can easily estimate their future performance of their coding.
    That's completely irrelevant. Because they can release 1000 patches with 50% of them bad, and it won't matter to anyone not running in the fast ring, because they won't get those updates until they've been vetted by the fast ring, which will be millions of users who want to live on the edge.

    If you are concerned about the updates, you simply have to stay on a slower ring, and regardless of whether or not they have a bad patch, you won't be affected.

    lehnerus2000 said: View Post
    That is the same picture that OSS supporters paint, when talking about OSS.

    I agree that in principle that more "looking" should lead to the faster identification/location of bugs.
    I'm not sure Heartbleed, POODLE and FREAK support that proposition.
    You're conflating two different issues. Bad patches are a stability issue. Bugs like Heartbleed are vulnerabilities to otherwise functioning code when attacked.

    "more eyes" is not what we're talking about here either. We're talking about millions of machines actually installing the patches, and Microsoft getting telemetry data about the success or failure rates of them.
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  5. Posts : 3,506
    Win_8.1-Pro, Win_10.1607-Pro, Mint_17.3
       19 May 2015 #135

    alphanumeric said: View Post
    I really really hope they do up a Media Creation Tool for Windows 10 like the one for Windows 8. That way the rest of you could easily get an ISO.
    Not sure about the tool, but there will be an ISO according to this matrix

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  6.    19 May 2015 #136

    Slartybart said: View Post
    Not sure about the tool, but there will be an ISO according to this matrix
    yes good news we be to get ISO's clean install it be here
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  7. Posts : 14,928
    Microsoft Windows 10 Pro 64-bit 14393, Windows 10 Insider Fast Ring, Windows 8.1 Update, Ubuntu
       19 May 2015 #137

    Mystere said: View Post
    If you are concerned about the updates, you simply have to stay on a slower ring, and regardless of whether or not they have a bad patch, you won't be affected.
    That say's it all.

    That is one of the advantages of a rolling update/upgrade system, there are people(usually with more than one system(real or virtual)), who want to test and see what's coming(like most here it the forums with the Technical Preview), and don't expect it to work 100% of the time, and there are people who need to play it safe.
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  8. Posts : 1,546
    W7 32 bit, Linux Mint Xfce 18 64 bit
       19 May 2015 #138

    Cliff S said: View Post
    That say's it all.

    That is one of the advantages of a rolling update/upgrade system, there are people(usually with more than one system(real or virtual)), who want to test and see what's coming(like most here it the forums with the Technical Preview), and don't expect it to work 100% of the time, and there are people who need to play it safe.
    That kind of the way Linux works with the exception you can delay updates if needed tell you are ready.

    The only concern I have is I don't want to be downloading 4gb updates each month because of bandwidth for windows 10, if Microsoft can keep windows update under 500 mb each week than I wouldn't have an issue. I tried the 32 bit version of windows 10 current build, to many problem. I am going to try the upgrade route instead and see if that fixes my issue otherwise I am going to have to totally give up on windows 10.
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  9. Posts : 1,467
    W7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), LM 18.1 MATE (64 bit), W10IP VM, W10 Home
       19 May 2015 #139

    Mystere said: View Post
    That's completely irrelevant. Because they can release 1000 patches with 50% of them bad, and it won't matter to anyone not running in the fast ring, because they won't get those updates until they've been vetted by the fast ring, which will be millions of users who want to live on the edge.
    How many people will stay on the "Fast Ring" if every second update forces them to refresh/re-image their machines?
    How many of those people will whine to their friends and anyone else who'll listen (in person, on the media or via blogs)?

    Mystere said: View Post
    You're conflating two different issues. Bad patches are a stability issue. Bugs like Heartbleed are vulnerabilities to otherwise functioning code when attacked.
    The end result matters, not the issue that was supposed to be fixed (e.g. cosmetic, stability or security).

    If the end result is a machine that has been broken by an update, most users won't care what the update was supposed to be for.

    Mystere said: View Post
    "more eyes" is not what we're talking about here either. We're talking about millions of machines actually installing the patches, and Microsoft getting telemetry data about the success or failure rates of them.
    I knew someone would nitpick that despite saying more "looking" not more people looking.

    Telemetry is of no use if an update causes telemetry to stop working because:
    • The machine won't reboot
    • The networking functions have been broken
    • The telemetry functions have been broken

    Given the complexities of a modern OS, there are probably hundreds or reasons (if not more) why telemetry could fail (or return erroneous reports).

    Telemetry also has to be interpreted correctly.

    Sinofsky claimed that W8 dropped the Start Menu because (allegedly) W7 Telemetry showed that no one used the Start Menu.
    We know how that turned out.
    In that case, telemetry was used as a smokescreen to justify a change that MS had already decided they were going to introduce "come Hell or high water".
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  10. Posts : 1,546
    W7 32 bit, Linux Mint Xfce 18 64 bit
       19 May 2015 #140

    Just for information, A lot of people and oems have Telemetry turned off by default. Some if they knew about Telemetry might turn it on. I also think people have a concern with privacy when Telemetry is turned on. I am referring to Windows 7.
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