Windows 10: Adobe Announces Universal Apps for Windows 10

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  1.    04 Jun 2016 #11

    alphanumeric said: View Post
    There are more than just phones and PC's. Windows 10 (or a version of it) will run on XBOX and other devices like the Raspberry Pi. Also what's to stop you from docking said device to a big screen? .
    Nothing. Jimbos point is that you wouldn't try to run Photoshop on a smartphone (or a XBOX or a Pi).

    Things have their places and the place of a Rasperry Pi is a small media server. Or a hobby. It isn't trying to do huge amounts of CPU intensive work.

    Phones also have their place but their screen is a little small if you want to look at a (I don't know) an Hollywood blockbuster movie.

    It would be easier to look at a big picture on a big screen especially if you brought 500 friends.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  2.    04 Jun 2016 #12

    jimbo45 said: View Post
    Hi there

    some apps definitely could benefit in the way you suggest - but usually if they are to run on things like mobiles they are essentially Touch based and require minimal user input / interaction.

    A lot of other complex stuff isn't suitable for this type of operation -- so the seemingly "Positive Sales spiel" on "Universal Apps" implies that it is the eventual aim that ALL apps will run this way -- that's simply NOT true until we can operate devices by mind or eye contact (a la S. Hawkins - although with more universal hardware suitable for general population). That is still YEARS away - if ever from becoming the norm.

    So IMO the words "Universal apps" just lead to confusion although nothing WHERE FEASABLE to have a consistent interface for all programs -- and actually the standard Windows GUI did that fairly well. People need to remember that currently (and into the reasonable forseeable future) some apps just won't be any good for converting to this format.

    Maybe a better solution would be to have WINDOWS itself running on an XBOX - then you could run apps without any change --a decent interpreter could presumably intercept the Windows code and re-create for an XBOX --CPU is more than powerful enough for Overhead --things like SAP (one of the biggest software companies on the planet - run things like ERP software and cloud based HANA services) have an "English like" programming language called ABAP which runs on a load of different platforms while keeping the same functionality.

    Cheers
    jimbo
    The XBOX already runs (a version) of Windows 10. It has the Edge browser and it can run Apps from the App store. I can browse the Internet, even post here from it if I wanted too. I can play music and watch video, Netflix etc. At the moment its the XBOX App store and a very limited selection. I'm hoping that changes once Universal Apps start showing up.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  3.    04 Jun 2016 #13

    lx07 said: View Post
    Nothing. Jimbos point is that you wouldn't try to run Photoshop on a smartphone (or a XBOX or a Pi).

    Things have their places and the place of a Rasperry Pi is a small media server. Or a hobby. It isn't trying to do huge amounts of CPU intensive work.

    Phones also have their place but their screen is a little small if you want to look at a (I don't know) an Hollywood blockbuster movie.

    It would be easier to look at a big picture on a big screen especially if you brought 500 friends.
    I agree, some devices won't be ideal for some Apps. I still think Universal apps is a step in the right direction though.

    The XBOX can do a lot more than just play games, as mentioned in my previous post. The Raspberry PI, not so much, but its getting better. The 3B has some good specs, it's up there with smart phones. ARM Cortex-A53 1.2 GHz 64 bit quad-core. Check my system specs in my profile, lol. Windows 10 on the Raspberry Pi is a whole other barrel of fish though. Calling it Windows 10 is a big stretch IMHO.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  4.    04 Jun 2016 #14

    Funnily I've been wanting to buy one for a while and you (even if you don't know it) have been encouraging me as I've been following you for a year or two.

    I just haven't figured out what to do with it. I'll probably buy one and then decide.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  5.    04 Jun 2016 #15

    lx07 said: View Post
    Funnily I've been wanting to buy one for a while and you (even if you don't know it) have been encouraging me as I've been following you for a year or two.

    I just haven't figured out what to do with it. I'll probably buy one and then decide.
    Ah, so you've been lurking in my Raspberry Pi threads. It's a nice change form the usual PC stuff. Buy a couple of uSD cards. Then you can change what it does just by swapping the SD card. The 3B now has onboard WIFI and Bluetooth. One nice thing is you can tailor your purchase to your budget, and what bits you already have on hand. I'd be scared to add up what I've spent on Pi related items, but don't regret it at all. It's been fun, and will continue to be fun for a long time. There have been days where I wanted to pull my hair out, but that's because I'm a NOOB with Linux.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  6.    04 Jun 2016 #16

    alphanumeric said: View Post
    Ah, so you've been lurking in my Raspberry Pi threads.
    I have actually and I like your enthusiasm.. I should do it too but I'm to cheap to spend the $40 (or however much it is) apparently.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  7.    04 Jun 2016 #17

    lx07 said: View Post
    I have actually and I like your enthusiasm.. I should do it too but I'm to cheap to spend $40 (or however much it is) apparently.
    The Zero is only 5 bucks Canadian, if you can find one. Shipping costs is what eats up a lot of my Pi budget. For most people, once they buy that first one, they are hooked. Yeah, its about 40 bucks Canadian for the Pi 3B, which is the current top of the line product. I have a 3B, 2B, A+ and a Zero. And sold a few to another forum member here. Anyway, feel free to continue this discussion in the Pi thread if like.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  8.    04 Jun 2016 #18

    lx07 said: View Post
    I don't understand this really. Are universal apps different in some fundamental way to those using the Win32 API? I know they are bigger and have less rights but they are basically doing the same thing.

    Surely if you though there was a market you would port it from one to the other (probably without really changing anything) although whether anyone would want to run Photoshop on a smartphone is debatable...
    This is how I currently understand it, however as it's still quite new I may not have all the details completely correct.

    Only UWP software can be sold in the Windows Store, so if software developers want their software in the store, then they need to convert it to UWP. Although, it's worth noting that although only UWP software can be sold in the Windows Store, UWP software doesn't actually need to be distributed through the Windows store, UWP appx programs can be side-loaded outside of the store and from what I understand can even be installed as easily as double-clicking appx icons to load them in the upcoming anniversary update. However, I doubt many consumers will opt to manually download and sideload software and will instead predominantly be using the store, as sideloading doesn't really benefit them in any way.

    Developers can choose what devices they want to target. If their software is high-end 3D modelling software like Maya for example that requires powerful hardware, lots of screen real estate, etc. I would imagine they will probably only make it available for desktop computers. If their software is something like an email client on the other-hand, then they will probably make it available for all devices and will only need to perform minor modifications in order to do so.

    From a developers perspective, UWP will mean they will be able to sell their software though Windows Store and they won't have to worry about the payment processing, distributing the software, distributing software updates, etc. One of the biggest draws will of course be lots of people browsing the store and being able to easily view and purchase their software. Also I'm guessing long term without serial numbers/activation keys, etc. it will help to reduce piracy. For smaller software companies, who are currently distributing their software for free and relying on advertising, bundling junkware, donations, etc. they could choose to put their software on the Windows Store for a small fee instead, rather that resorting to bundling junkware in order to get paid for their work.

    From a users perspective, it will mean they will be able to easily buy software with only having to worry about one company having their credit card/personal details, and who's account they can secure with two-factor authentication. This is obviously better than having to sign up for lots of different online accounts from lots of different software vendors, all with differing levels of resources spent on security. In addition, they will be able to use the software on up to 10 different devices as the purchases are tied to a Microsoft Account rather than a specific device.

    Performance wise, UWP programs don't fill the PC/registry with loads of junk and they allow for completely clean un-installs without leaving loads of junk around resulting in the PC slowing down over time.

    Security wise UWP programs are sandboxed and will restrict developers from using bad practices that create vulnerabilities and will also remove the need for third-party updating mechanisms. With normal consumers using the Store instead of downloading their software from various websites, the chances of them installing malicious or junkware laden software will be reduced (well, once online stores turn up the heat on people submitting fake software and apps whose sole purpose it seems is to data mine user data).

    Easy of use wise, when you buy a new computer, your software is already sat there waiting to install without needing to go to individual developers sites and download the most up-to-date version, go through the installation process prompts, type in your product keys, etc. Also software automatically keeps itself up-to-date.

    Personally, I don't think online stores taking a cut will be the biggest concern for developers, as taking a cut has been normal for traditional retails stores since forever? Local shops, supermarkets, retail outlets, Amazon, advertising & marketing companies, hosting companies, etc. have always taken their cut. But I do think software developers will probably tread cautiously until UWP matures more because they don't want to risk too much time, money and effort only for Microsoft to make changes and pull the carpet from underneath their feet. So those who can easily convert their software using 'Project Centennial' with minimal work will probably do so, having both Win32 and UWP versions initially until Windows 7 market share falls to a point where it's no longer economically viable to keep developing the Win32 version (or in just over 3.5 years when Windows 7 comes out of extended support). Those who are currently producing basic apps will probably complain because they are about to get competition from serious software companies. Those who's programs need a lot more effort to convert will probably buy time until UWP matures more, teething problems are resolved and of course Microsoft themselves show their own commitment to the UWP platform and store by putting all their own software in Windows Store as UWP programs.

    In short, Win32 software purchasing, distribution, updating, un-installing and it's free reign of the OS has been long due a revamp. UWP aims to tidy up the short-comings making it a much better environment for everyone, but especially ordinary users (who are the majority of users) for whom it will greatly benefit. But, it's still early days and has been hampered by 'apps' traditionally being less capable than full fat proper software. Once the UWP software platform is able to compete head-to-head with Win32 software functionality wise, Windows 7 leaves it's current 'extended support' phase (which will soon fly by) and Windows 10 has an even larger market share, there would be little reason to buy Win32 software over UWP software. Although, granted bespoke business software will probably remain in legacy Win32 format for a long time, because companies don't like spending money until they really have to.

    The only thing I am concerned about is software companies "doing an Adobe" and move to only offering subscription only software. That is a real concern.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  9.    04 Jun 2016 #19

    I don't think consumers can side load Apps? I think that's more for your corporate image or so OEM's can add them to their installs. I could be wrong but I think that's the original intent. Licensing becomes an issue too, if that App requires it. I've looked at this in the past and always end up getting lost and confused the more I read.

    I'm not a big fan of subscription plans. Not for stand alone software. If it uses online storage, or provides protected content etc, then yeah, pay as you go. And it's not universal across devices? Groove Music is free on the PC but shows as a Trial on my XBOX?
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  10.    04 Jun 2016 #20

    ARC1020 said: View Post
    This is how I currently understand it <snip>,
    Thank you. That was the best response I've read on this or any forum, incredibly well thought out and considered.

    I'd buy you the internet and wrap it up in a shiny red bow if it was possible.

    I'm still not sure I understand the UWP/Win32 difference but I'm a mainframe programmer so probably no-one cares what I think.
      My ComputerSystem Spec


 
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