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  1. Joined : Jan 2016
    Posts : 12
    Windows 7 Professional/Windows 10 Home
       29 May 2016 #101

    Just in case it hasn't already been mentioned - this latest pop-up also violates MS's own guidelines regarding the use of Dialog Boxes.

    Dialog Boxes (Windows)

    The Close button on the title bar should have the same effect as the Cancel or Close button within the dialog box. Never give it the same effect as OK.
    Make sure the Close button on the title bar has the same effect as Cancel or Close.
    I'm sure they're not too worried about it though.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  2. Joined : Jun 2014
    Posts : 4,497
    Windows 10 Pro
       29 May 2016 #102

    MrBill said: View Post
    Incorrect. As per a previous person's comment, this is social engineering at its finest. I've developed front end apps before. You guide the users actions via buttons, size, ease of navigation etc. Microsoft did two things to steer people away from cancelling the upgrade. First they made the cancel option very small and inside the description vs. the large button and obviously easily navigated steps to upgrade. Secondly, they conditioned people that closing the window via the red 'X' would cancel the upgrade. Then, after a period of time, they changed that functionality to do the exact opposite and use it as an implied okay.

    This is 100% coercion, and I own two Windows 10 machines. Overall I like the OS. However, I have other machines that are Windows 7 because my family members like programs that are older and won't run on it. Also, they've used my Windows 10 machines and prefer 7. Since 7 is supported until 2020 I will simply solve those issues the next time I buy new hardware, which is the better method as far as hardware driver/compatibility anyway.

    In any case, my ire is not against Windows 10, it is against Microsoft's marketing department and their deceptive strategy.
    zooburner said: View Post
    I agree,

    I really cannot see why Microsoft didn't simply make a 'No Thanks' button the same size, now that would be simple and straightforward. The 'No Thanks' button could then lead to a window that asks two questions simply

    1) Do you wish to keep windows 7/8.1, in which case we will never bother you again?
    2) Would you like us to remind you a few months before support for Windows 7/8.1 stops ?

    wouldn't that be fresh, simple and honest ?
    In their wise wisdom MS has decided that their goal of reaching 1 billion devices is more important than the users desires.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  3. Joined : May 2016
    Posts : 536
    Windows 10
       29 May 2016 #103

    Winuser said: View Post
    In their wise wisdom MS has decided that their goal of reaching 1 billion devices is more important than the users desires.
    That is not waht I call "Very Clever". Seems that there is more and more lacking of it.
    Any way, the Best solution I adopted, was to do often System´Images.
    I was forced to Stop the Updates in 8.1, becuase they were corrupting my HDD, a lot os BSOD. Well, I say to me : "Never fix what is not Broken". I have no issues on 8.1, so I do not need updates. END.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  4. Joined : Aug 2015
    Posts : 45
    Windows 10
       29 May 2016 #104

    MrBill said: View Post
    Incorrect. As per a previous person's comment, this is social engineering at its finest. I've developed front end apps before. You guide the users actions via buttons, size, ease of navigation etc. Microsoft did two things to steer people away from cancelling the upgrade. First they made the cancel option very small and inside the description vs. the large button and obviously easily navigated steps to upgrade. Secondly, they conditioned people that closing the window via the red 'X' would cancel the upgrade. Then, after a period of time, they changed that functionality to do the exact opposite and use it as an implied okay.

    This is 100% coercion, and I own two Windows 10 machines. Overall I like the OS. However, I have other machines that are Windows 7 because my family members like programs that are older and won't run on it. Also, they've used my Windows 10 machines and prefer 7. Since 7 is supported until 2020 I will simply solve those issues the next time I buy new hardware, which is the better method as far as hardware driver/compatibility anyway.

    In any case, my ire is not against Windows 10, it is against Microsoft's marketing department and their deceptive strategy.
    No MrBill I am correct what I stated is exactly what the pop-up says. Whether that is " social engineering or psychology or whatever isn't what I was addressing.

    I am smarter than Pavloves Dogs and read before clicking.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  5. Joined : Aug 2015
    Posts : 45
    Windows 10
       29 May 2016 #105

    CarlSD said: View Post
    Just in case it hasn't already been mentioned - this latest pop-up also violates MS's own guidelines regarding the use of Dialog Boxes.

    Dialog Boxes (Windows)





    I'm sure they're not too worried about it though.
    No, it doesn't violate anything. All it does is close the dialog window.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  6. Joined : Oct 2014
    Posts : 1,542
    W7 32 bit, Linux Mint Xfce 18 64 bit
       29 May 2016 #106

    pcgeek11 said: View Post
    No, it doesn't violate anything. All it does is close the dialog window.
    Actually, it could but not Ms guidelines. I am not a lawyer. If it installs without a EULA popping up somewhere before installations, then their might be issues with state contract laws and the FTC. I am surprised Microsoft lawyers didn't point that out. You can encourage users to upgrade or buy something but not trick them at least in the U.S. this applies to all products and/or software online or in person.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7.    29 May 2016 #107

    Folks, there are far too many people on forums and elsewhere, insisting that they did not authorize the upgrade to 10. People who were tricked into consenting did not consent.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  8. Joined : Apr 2015
    Posts : 9,178
    W10Prox64
       29 May 2016 #108

    groze said: View Post
    Actually, it could but not Ms guidelines. I am not a lawyer. If it installs without a EULA popping up somewhere before installations, then their might be issues with state contract laws and the FTC. I am surprised Microsoft lawyers didn't point that out. You can encourage users to upgrade or buy something but not trick them at least in the U.S. this applies to all products and/or software online or in person.
    I've watched it. It installs. Then the window pops up for you to agree. If you decline, it starts the rollback process. If the rollback is unsuccessful, (as I have seen on several machines), you are up a creek.
    Vince Massi said: View Post
    Folks, there are far too many people on forums and elsewhere, insisting that they did not authorize the upgrade to 10. People who were tricked into consenting did not consent.
    Agreed.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  9. Joined : Dec 2013
    Sydney, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts : 8,239
    Windows 10 IoT
       30 May 2016 #109

    pcgeek11 said: View Post
    No, it doesn't violate anything. All it does is close the dialog window.

    Clicking the RED X does more than just close the dialog Window, it gives consent to do the upgrade. I have verified it myself. The message changes from "Windows 10 is now a Recommended update" to "You're all set! Your free upgrade is scheduled for". They are counting on people just clicking the X, which up until now, was a no go button. Look at the screen shots and you will see the upgrade now OK button is very prominent. The opt out option though is small plain text with only the one word clickable. What is the point of publishing guidelines if your not going to follow them yourself. Apparently reading is hard, you seem to have a very hard time reading and understanding what we have been posting.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  10. Joined : May 2015
    Posts : 112
       30 May 2016 #110

    Exactly


    alphanumeric said: View Post
    Clicking the RED X does more than just close the dialog Window, it gives consent to do the upgrade. I have verified it myself. The message changes from "Windows 10 is now a Recommended update" to "You're all set! Your free upgrade is scheduled for". They are counting on people just clicking the X, which up until now, was a no go button. Look at the screen shots and you will see the upgrade now OK button is very prominent. The opt out option though is small plain text with only the one word clickable. What is the point of publishing guidelines if your not going to follow them yourself. Apparently reading is hard, you seem to have a very hard time reading and understanding what we have been posting.
    This is exactly the entire point. The methods Microsoft has employed reminds me of the malware pop ups you get on the internet, if you are not protected, and when you click no or close the window the malware is delivered. Also that cancel link, to 99% of the Windows world they won't realize that's even a thing. Many users/friends who call me for help don't understand what a different color font means. Back in the day, Bill Gates used to say he wanted Windows so easy to use a grandmother could do it. They succeeded with things like Windows 95, XP etc. It appears post Bill, the current CEO is using Bill's previous strategy to manipulate the user base to do what the corporation wants rather than the user. Based on the latest market share numbers, Microsoft is below 90% for the PC for the first time ever. Whoever is making the marketing decisions there needs to be fired quickly and someone more user focused put in.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


 
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