Windows 10: Windows 10 to make the Secure Boot alt-OS lock out a reality

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  1. Posts : 1,546
    W7 32 bit, Linux Mint Xfce 18 64 bit
       20 Mar 2015 #1

    Windows 10 to make the Secure Boot alt-OS lock out a reality


    Those of you with long memories will recall a barrage of complaints in the run up to Windows 8's launch that concerned the ability to install other operating systems—whether they be older versions of Windows, or alternatives such as Linux or FreeBSD—on hardware that sported a "Designed for Windows 8" logo.

    To get that logo, hardware manufacturers had to fulfil a range of requirements for the systems they built, and one of those requirements had people worried. Windows 8 required machines to support a feature called UEFI Secure Boot. Secure Boot protects against malware that interferes with the boot process in order to inject itself into the operating system at a low level. When Secure Boot is enabled, the core components used to boot the machine must have correct cryptographic signatures, and the UEFI firmware verifies this before it lets the machine start. If any files have been tampered with, breaking their signature, the system won't boot.

    This is a desirable security feature, but it has an issue for alternative operating systems: if, for example, you prefer to compile your own operating system, your boot files won't include a signature that Secure Boot will recognize and authorize, and so you won't be able to boot your PC.
    Source
    Last edited by Brink; 21 Mar 2015 at 08:18. Reason: fixed format to meet news article posting guidelines
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  2.    20 Mar 2015 #2

    Hi there

    I still won't believe this -- as I've posted there are ZILLIONS of machines out there which don't support UEFI let alone secure boot.

    Ms wants as many machines as possible to move away from W7 (and XP of course) so it's not even feasible to THINK about only allowing machines with secure boot functionality to run Windows 10.

    Whatever that source says I still JUST DON'T BELIEVE IT. !!!!! Makes no sense whatsoever.

    Even if NEW machines need secure boot enabled what about older machines -- especially non UEFI machines. If a NON UEFI OS is also allowed then of course UEFI machines will also be able to load it.

    Cheers
    jimbo
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  3. Posts : 1,546
    W7 32 bit, Linux Mint Xfce 18 64 bit
    Thread Starter
       20 Mar 2015 #3

    @jimbo45

    I hope you are correct. I want you to be correct. If not, then I see the free software foundation legal department taking care of this problem really quick, especially if you can't dual boot or can't boot to non-windows cd, dvd or usb drive. I have used Mini-wizard partition magic boot cd/dvd to fix issues. I have used Macrium Reflect outside of windows to backup and restore my computer.
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  4.    20 Mar 2015 #4

    I'd LIKE to believe that all these recent announcements (e.g., UEFI required, no passwords anymore, and now Secure Boot required) are intended to address ONLY new machines that come with Win10 preloaded -- as the new Win8 machines came with UEFI.

    MS can't have it both ways -- they can't requires features that only the newest hardware will have, while, at the same time, making a big deal about giving away Win10 to (millions?) of Win7 machine owners. If Win10 actually does require all these new hardware features, then it's only going to be installable on a very small percentage of the existing Windows PC base.
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  5.    20 Mar 2015 #5

    I find it amusing that the freedom loving crowd is crying foul that Microsoft is... giving oem's the freedom to choose.

    Wow, talk about irony.

    Also, you as the customer, have the freedom to choose an OEM that does not choose to limit your options, and those OEM's that give you the options will benefit with more sales.
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  6. Posts : 1,546
    W7 32 bit, Linux Mint Xfce 18 64 bit
    Thread Starter
       20 Mar 2015 #6

    Mystere said: View Post
    I find it amusing that the freedom loving crowd is crying foul that Microsoft is... giving oem's the freedom to choose.

    Wow, talk about irony.

    Also, you as the customer, have the freedom to choose an OEM that does not choose to limit your options, and those OEM's that give you the options will benefit with more sales.
    @Mystere

    That is not the point, it is the end user that should have the right to choose. In the U.S. try finding pre-installed Linux or a BSD or even an apple computer system for around $500.00 USD aside from the mini-mac. Systems with other operating systems are very hard to find at low cost. This may also effect computer shops. There are small business that depend on computer sales.


    I am not leasing the computer from the oem, I am buying it to use an operating system. Now if I want to remove that operating system or dual boot with another, I should be able to and use any operating system of my choice. Once I purchase it, it is my machine not theirs. I should be able to do anything with my system. In fact, I got really when I first got the windows 7 dell, saying you have to agree to this using to use your computer, no I don't it is mine that possible illegal in the U.S.. I know that dell might of included their own EULA in that but it was all done incorrectly. When I got the dell re-installation disk, I didn't have to agree to that anymore.


    I think even chromebooks you could remove google and install a Linux distro.
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  7.    21 Mar 2015 #7

    groze said: View Post
    @Mystere

    That is not the point, it is the end user that should have the right to choose. In the U.S. try finding pre-installed Linux or a BSD or even an apple computer system for around $500.00 USD aside from the mini-mac. Systems with other operating systems are very hard to find at low cost. This may also effect computer shops. There are small business that depend on computer sales.


    I am not leasing the computer from the oem, I am buying it to use an operating system. Now if I want to remove that operating system or dual boot with another, I should be able to and use any operating system of my choice. Once I purchase it, it is my machine not theirs. I should be able to do anything with my system. In fact, I got really when I first got the windows 7 dell, saying you have to agree to this using to use your computer, no I don't it is mine that possible illegal in the U.S.. I know that dell might of included their own EULA in that but it was all done incorrectly. When I got the dell re-installation disk, I didn't have to agree to that anymore.


    I think even chromebooks you could remove google and install a Linux distro.
    Hi there

    EXACTLY -- imagine the outcry if when buying a Car it said you could only fill up at SHELL gas stations or not drive after 15:00 each day.

    You buy a piece of Hardware. The OS is added on separately -- OK the OS manufacturer can insist on conditions for the user of the OS as you LICENSE the software -- but YOU OWN the hardware.

    Ms have a perfect right to design the OS in any way it choses - but it has NO right to insist on how hardware builders construct their gear. They can say our OS will only run in protected boot mode - that's quite different from saying the computer hardware can ONLY use protected boot. Even on modern hardware you can switch it off if you want to.

    However Ms is shooting itself in the foot if it deliberately tries to restrict the hardware Windows 10 runs on. After the debacle of Windows 8 Ms needs to get as many users as possible to switch from W7 and even XP. Making these sorts of statements about protected boot etc will just put customers off (and probably encourage piracy too).

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  8.    21 Mar 2015 #8

    I find it amusing that the freedom loving crowd is crying foul that Microsoft is... giving oem's the freedom to choose.
    I hope this is not intended to apply to what I'm saying because that has nothing whatsoever to do with what OEMs are going to do.

    I have NO intentions of buying a new machine just to run Win10. So, the OEMs can restrict their machines as much as they want, and that's not going to affect me.

    I am concerned with these announcements implying that MS (not the OEM's) is going to restrict what hardware will be able to run Win10 when it goes into production. These are MS's announcements, not the OEM's announcements.

    I don't want MS to put me into the position that I have to scrap hundreds of dollars of hardware just to install and run Win10.

    Yeah, and everyone is saying that MS is NOT going to do that -- but I've seen nothing coming forward from MS to confirm that -- only presumptions that other folks are making.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  9.    21 Mar 2015 #9

    Firstly, it is about "Designed for Windows 10" logo. Secondly, to get the logo, PC now does not have to have the Secure Boot switch turned off, it is now optional. Win 10 will run on any other new PC, even without UEFI, but such PC will not get the label. That is all. At least that is what I read in the linked article...
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  10.    21 Mar 2015 #10

    Mark Phelps said: View Post
    I hope this is not intended to apply to what I'm saying because that has nothing whatsoever to do with what OEMs are going to do.

    I have NO intentions of buying a new machine just to run Win10. So, the OEMs can restrict their machines as much as they want, and that's not going to affect me.

    I am concerned with these announcements implying that MS (not the OEM's) is going to restrict what hardware will be able to run Win10 when it goes into production. These are MS's announcements, not the OEM's announcements.
    What announcement are you talking about? Certainly not the one here, since the one here is talking only about what MS is allowing (or rather no longer requiring) OEM's to do.
      My ComputerSystem Spec


 
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