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  1. Joined : Oct 2014
    Posts : 297
    10x64
       17 Mar 2015 #21

    groze said: View Post
    BunnyJ

    Did you read the case against Microsoft in Europe? I did. Microsoft told that removing IE would make the system unusable and said it was impossible to remove because it is now a part of the operating system. It was not just one article that said that, many articles said that. I wonder what European & U.S. regulators would say now.
    Yes, I always thought that was a very stupid argument to put forth about IE, especially since it started out in its life as a completely separate program, just like all of the other browsers. They'd have done far better, I think, had they concentrated on the fact that Netscape had been giving away millions of copies of Nav/Communicator direct from the Netscape site for years--and that the "price" of IE was a reflection of that. I downloaded umpteen-many copies of Netscape browsers for several years--right from the Netscape site--gratis. (Oh, they asked for donations if you liked the browser, but it was never made a condition of downloading it, and Netscape routinely gave away much to schools and businesses at the time.) Barksdale was even quoted a few times talking about how it was OK for Netscape to give away its browser in order to "seed" the market for its server software--which it never gave away. Funny thing is, while he was making those statements he was bitching to Congress about the fact that Microsoft was "bundling" IE with Windows. Indeed, Netscape was giving away its browsers for years (and bundling them with printers, computer systems, monitors, modems--anything that was remotely connected to a computer usually contained a copy of a Netscape browser)--I had almost as many free ones as I had America-Online CDs...

    You're right--it was a dumb thing for Microsoft to say...when it was so simple to show what the competition (Netscape didn't want any competition, and wanted the US government to make it illegal for Microsoft to compete with them in the browser space) was doing. But, really, Judge Jackson was so biased and prejudiced that I think if Microsoft had presented evidence that Netscape had been robbing banks Jackson would have just laughed it off--like he did when Microsoft objected to being called a "monopoly" when they so easily proved how Sun, IBM, Apple & Netscape were all direct competitors with Microsoft in many areas with Linux, Mac OS, Solaris, etc. I think that time has proven who was right and who was wrong--Microsoft is still thriving, but Netscape and Sun have been gone for years. Poetic justice, I always thought. It just doesn't pay to stop competing in order to ask the government to guarantee you a monopoly share of the market--which is what Netscape wanted, but of course never got. Thankfully.
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  2. Joined : Oct 2014
    Posts : 480
    Windows 10
       17 Mar 2015 #22

    I hated Netscape, it made my computers almost unworkable and I always had the latest PCs, at least IE was reasonably light, just buggy.
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  3. Joined : Nov 2013
    Idaho USA
    Posts : 4,534
    OS X, Win 10
       17 Mar 2015 #23

    . . .again mythical B.S. . . .
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  4. Joined : Sep 2014
    Posts : 2,923
    Windows 10 Pro
       17 Mar 2015 #24

    groze said: View Post
    Did you read the case against Microsoft in Europe? I did. Microsoft told that removing IE would make the system unusable and said it was impossible to remove because it is now a part of the operating system. It was not just one article that said that, many articles said that. I wonder what European & U.S. regulators would say now.
    You're misrepresenting both what Microsoft said, and what the regulators were doing. Or at least misunderstanding it.

    What the regulators wanted was for Microsoft to magically just "uninstall" IE from the current version of Windows without breaking anything. That couldn't be done because IE was completely integrated into the OS, and doing so meant crippling the OS in the process. *AT THAT TIME*.

    That doesn't preclude MS from designing a new version of Windows that does not have IE integrated, which they have done in the proceeding years since. For instance, there is no longer a dependency on MSHTML in Windows (er.. File) Explorer. However, Microsoft could not do that in the short amount of time the regulators gave Microsoft (weeks) to remove IE from Windows.

    You can't look at the comments taken out of the context of the requirements as a whole.
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  5. Joined : Oct 2014
    Posts : 1,541
    W7 32 bit, Linux Mint Xfce 18 64 bit
       17 Mar 2015 #25

    Actually, it can be done heard of 98lite and xplite? They stopped with xplite I don't think they could do it with Vista and Windows 7.

    Here is wikipedia definition

    Removal of Internet Explorer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    It is unclear what it means to "remove IE" because such a removal depends on being able to determine which files or functions on an installed Windows system are part of IE that is, to draw a line between IE and the rest of Windows. Microsoft has held that this is not meaningful; that in Windows 98 and newer versions, "Internet Explorer" is not a separate piece of software but simply a brand name for the web browsing and HTML rendering capacities of the Windows operating system. In this view, the result of removing IE is simply a damaged Windows system; to have a working system without IE one must replace Windows entirely.


    In contrast, some programmers and security writers have held that it is possible to have a useful and working Windows system with IE excised. These people include consultant Fred Vorck, who advocates that consumers should have the choice to remove "integrated" features of Microsoft Windows and participates in the HFSLIP project; Dino Nuhagic, who is the creator of nLite, a product that allows users to remove Windows components like Internet Explorer and Windows Media Player; and Shane Brooks, who created 98lite and XPLite to remove and manage Windows componentsafter the installation of the operating system. Some people have suggested the use of alternative browsers instead of Internet Explorer, to try reduce the risk of vulnerabilities.
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  6. Joined : Sep 2014
    Posts : 2,923
    Windows 10 Pro
       17 Mar 2015 #26

    Again, you are just repeating things you read. Most of those tools don't do what they claim to do. They remove only small pieces of IE and then claim to have "entirely removed it" just because you could no longer use IE. That did not fit the legal definition of removing it from the courts perspective.

    What's more, many of those tools worked by installing versions of files from older versions of Windows, thus radically breaking huge swaths of functionality. Yes, the OS would boot. And Yes, you could run a certain subset of applications. But for all intents and purposes, the OS was broken by these tools.

    Of course all this was back in the days of Windows 98, long before we had monthly patch updates for security holes... You can't just install old versions of apps and expect them to remain secure and safe. If you actually looked into how these tools actually did their job, you would realize the scam they were trying to pull.
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  7. Joined : Oct 2014
    Posts : 1,541
    W7 32 bit, Linux Mint Xfce 18 64 bit
       17 Mar 2015 #27

    Mystere.


    I actually used 98lite, and it did leave no traces of Internet explorer, I used it for quite awhile and it speed up my computer. I had no problems with it. I had to install Internet explorer with Microsoft works 7 but still didn't use desktop integration for quite awhile. Then I finally did and started liking it. You old need the old version of the files if you wanted desktop integration gone as well. It still remove Internet explorer without relying on older windows files. I tried that method as well.

    Did you read the first line of the paragraph of what I quote?
    It is unclear what it means to "remove IE"

    it means they don't know very simple to figure out.


    This is just one article by the way, if I saved the bookmarks, I could show you tons of articles on this, not just wikipedia. Wikipedia is all I could find. Yes, I know you can't believe everything your read on the web. Some of those articles I read come from reliable sources besides wikipedia. I am not saying wikipedia is or is not reliable.
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  8. Joined : Jan 2014
    Oak Ridge TN, USA
    Posts : 23,934
    Windows 10 Pro x64
       18 Mar 2015 #28

    @groze
    First off MS can and likely will have a feature to transfer your bookmarks from IE to Spartan.. they can and will have a way to get that done.

    Second, .. well again. I know that MS will find or have found a way by now to eventually phase out IE from the OS. It's just a programming issue and believe it or not.. they know how to do that by now.

    Finally, your confusing what MS has said about removing IE. As a user they have suggested that removing IE would make the OS unstable and from my understanding it does. And I'm not addressing 98lite either. MS can remove IE from the OS. Trust me and others here that it's very possible. What you're reading all over the Internet is not always correct and please stop quoting it.. Overall it's not helping your credibility.

    Just my 2c
    Jeff
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  9. Joined : Jan 2014
    Oak Ridge TN, USA
    Posts : 23,934
    Windows 10 Pro x64
       18 Mar 2015 #29

    groze said: View Post
    Actually, it can be done heard of 98lite and xplite? They stopped with xplite I don't think they could do it with Vista and Windows 7.

    Here is wikipedia definition

    Removal of Internet Explorer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Wikipedia?? Seriously?? A sight where anyone can post information and claim it's facts?? Win98 is a totally different animal than either Vista or WIn7. There is simply no comparison between those and how IE was integrated in them.
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  10. Joined : Jan 2014
    Oak Ridge TN, USA
    Posts : 23,934
    Windows 10 Pro x64
       18 Mar 2015 #30

    BillyBob said: View Post
    I spend a lot of time on the Internet, I was on the Internet before most people knew what the Internet was, again I say what is wrong with IE, what websites doesn't it work on, I've never come across one.
    Yes years ago there were problems but I don't know of any major ones now, maybe the other browsers have some plugins for different things but that's about it.
    I still have a floppy disk with Mosaic on it and probably one with Netscape. When IE first came out it was pretty ordinary for a long time but I wouldn't say that now.
    I know of two classes that I took that couldn't and there could be more on Coursera - Free Online Courses From Top Universities that might not work as well. While MS has improved IE it's still miles behind FF/Chrome and they have to wipe the slate clean and start over.
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