Windows 10: Is paying for antivirus a waste of money?

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  1. Night Hawk's Avatar
    Posts : 3,361
    W10 Pro x64/W7 Ultimate x64 dual boot main - W10 Pro Insider Preview/W7 Pro x64 - remote pc
       18 Apr 2016 #390

    I do everything on mine here without all the drama. Remote access is the norm including several VMs which also see a virtualization type security app from the software company installed on some of those. The VIPRE Hyper-V app even works on VMware rather then the need to buy some other av program.
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  2.    18 Apr 2016 #391

    kelkel said: View Post
    First off, let me say that for anyone doing banking or financal transactions that there is NO WAY the Win platform can be fully trusted. Simply reboot into a Linux Live CD (Or USB version). And that should also be used for visiting 'risky' sites.

    Second, Win security is a matter of personal choice, expertise, experience, and even downright *attitude*. Your choice of who you consider the OWNER of your desktop.

    Here I run an XP network, along with Linux, a Win7 machine, and a Win10 dual tablet/mini-notebook.

    Traditionally the first thing I do is disable *everything* remotely related to Remote Desktop functions. Nothing should ever see a login prompt, and that applies to Linux also where even sshd is physically removed.

    No messenger, no netmeeting, and certainly no remote 'help' functions.
    I use the Blackviper site as a guide to disable as many Win *services* as possible. And then some.
    I avoid the 'cloud' and do not use any 'sharing' or sync services.

    I use ERUNT/ERDNT to back up the registry daily. This is alot better than relying on System restore.

    I have a *huge* HOSTS file as well as Peerblocker installed with all the major filter lists.

    I use Firefox, with all the NoScript security suite, and then some.

    I have IE sandboxed, and usually run any new app in a sandbox first to see what it does. Some junk is PUP infested, so I just extract the main program folder from the sandbox, move it into my own version of 'Program Files' , though I often zip it up first and send it to VirusTotal to see what they say - first.

    Since Win is by definition a VIRUS (software programmable firewall, you say??) the first thing I do is disable the Security Center, Updates, UAC, Firewall - the whole shebang. This step is NOT recommened for those without sufficient experience who cannot sight and remove boogers with simple tools like Hijackthis, and malware eradication from a dual boot Linux. The network here is mostly behind TWO hardware firewalls, except for the Win10 tablet - and I am working on securing that. SO far stripping out half of the services, including updates and firewall have created no problems here, though technically it is a Honeypot. I have KIS on it temporarily, though typically turned off.

    The tablet, btw is not allowed access to the local network.

    I have a development system here. Many of the tools I use here are for patching, packet sniffing, including RATS and encryptors I experiment with to determine better ways of protecting the system here. AV 'protection' would do more damage here than the boogers themselves. I just removed KIS on my main system when it decided to turn on (against instructions) and attack a USB drive. It killed a program (despite being expressly forbidden from deletion) - so I killed it.

    Personally I am only looking for an ON DEMAND scanner. KIS had a nice one, but I could not separate it from the parent program. Emsisoft seems to have a decent (if SLOW) one in its Emergency Kit and its scanning of downloads of a collection of vintage games seems reasonable, though with a bunch of false positives. Trojan.Generic? Toss it into sandbox and see what it does.

    I would find all AV software pretty much useless against *NEW* software. If you visit a good hacker forum the first thing learned is that there are folks there who claim that their *encryptors* have lasted for YEARS without detection, even by sites like Virustotal - which they test against. Even the free malware offered to kiddies can create encryptors undetectable for months on end. They do not consider anything M$ to have *any* real protection at all, and even claim infection of media files and JPGs.

    I rarely do email on my main machine, and use a text only client (Forte Agent).

    I remove or disable as much M$ crapware as possible, and sandbox the rest.

    The result is that I catch about one booger a year. It usually takes me about 20 minutes to kill it.

    I accidentally click on at least one booger a month, and have always been able to kill it in a minute or two. The new ones cant even run in XP!

    I always run as Admin.

    This, of course would be suicidal for 'typical' users, just as much as typical 'AV Suites' would be suicidal for me. And cause me alot more time and grief than a booger infection.

    The point being in all this is that ones protection *needs* are directly dictated by ones user practices. And technical expertise.
    The more you know, and are willing to learn - the more power you will have over your desktop.

    That said, the average person will regard their system, particularly if mobile as a consumption device. And will have neither the time nor the inclination to learn the innards of the system like identifying strange DLLs and services. Best advice is to back up valuable data regularly, and just rely on standard software, and free AV like Avast. And adwcleaner for the standard garbage.

    Try to avoid anything *new*, and fer chrissake never download a *NEW* torrent! Wait for reviews - some sites will delete bad ones.

    One of the major attack vectors these days are *updates* - be forewarned. Important software should be *manually* updated.

    Think about it. If Roger McAfee can send you an update whenever he wants, why cant Yigor, from Minsk!
    Before I would go that far to protect my computer I would use the simplest, easiest, and cheapest method of protection. The off button.
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  3.    18 Apr 2016 #392

    Winuser said: View Post
    Before I would go that far to protect my computer I would use the simplest, easiest, and cheapest method of protection. The off button.
    Yup.. seems to be more overthinking than anything else.
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  4.    18 Apr 2016 #393

    BunnyJ said: View Post
    Yup.. seems to be more overthinking than anything else.
    I use Eset, (Defender(2 computers)), MBAM, MBAE, SuperAntiSpyware and common sense. I also have images of a clean system and backup my data. I know I'm not 100% safe but I feel safe enough to use my computer.
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  5.    18 Apr 2016 #394

    I simply use Defender and common sense.

    Been working fine for many years.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  6.    18 Apr 2016 #395

    I have found that it's not viruses (virii?) that cause the problems I find it's the Malware that gets in like babylon and Conduit. I use Avast Free anti virus and malwarebytes anti malware plugin. I also use adwcleaner to check the system it is good at finding and fixing a lot of nasties.
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  7. Night Hawk's Avatar
    Posts : 3,361
    W10 Pro x64/W7 Ultimate x64 dual boot main - W10 Pro Insider Preview/W7 Pro x64 - remote pc
       18 Apr 2016 #396

    Hello David H Welcome to the Ten Forums!

    With almost everyone running some type of av free or paid for at this late viruses are an outdated form of annoyance seldom used. Ransomwares and security breaches as well as keyloggers and other disruptive elements included identity theft are what are on the increase. And ransomware can be bug bombed on anyone despite noscript this or that even getting past firewalls and all types of web filters simply by catching the user offguard who then allows the bombshell to be dropped!
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  8. Night Hawk's Avatar
    Posts : 3,361
    W10 Pro x64/W7 Ultimate x64 dual boot main - W10 Pro Insider Preview/W7 Pro x64 - remote pc
       19 Apr 2016 #397

    Hello zarawatsonn Welcome to the Ten Forums!

    I wouldn't get too overconfident in that regard. First off the MSE and WD lack sufficient web filtering to detect sites with malicious coding. Viruses are not the common plight at this time as they once had been since an increasingly larger variety of malwares for various purposes are what you are now seeing. And malware writers are getting more clever at how things are disguished!

    Some offers on the web will be real tempting but lead you the user into a trap! Often you would label something like that as ransomware or something will be presented to make some new program or service inviting! And these will appear on the social networks as well as out on the web in general. But no matter how good or bad any program is nothing is ever 100% Fail Proof! New angles are being tried almost daily! "Approach with extreme caution" is the better advice until something new can be looked over closely as far as so called bargain deals on the web! Others can get slipped on regardless of what protections you have inplace appearing as normal as any other program but get by without you even knowing how they get on since nothing malicious is detected.

    Full system backups and Common Sense are a pair of the best tools you can have going for you as well as adding experience at dealing with all types of bugs over time to learn how to know one is! Always have a form of disaster recovery plan in store just in case of...???
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  9.    19 Apr 2016 #398

    Been running Avast for 3 days now and not a single threat. I also have 3rd party firewall properly set up to block incoming connections and outgoing connections.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  10.    19 Apr 2016 #399

    BunnyJ said: View Post
    I simply use Defender and common sense.

    Been working fine for many years.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

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