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  1.    30 Mar 2016 #351
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    @blutos cousin.

    The majority of old technology you just touched based on is alive and kicking ,,, " yes as we speak and never will be going anywhere and there is a strong demand in the current market...

    example: vinyl music records, and vintage audio, and 50 year old photo camera equipment and gear... <-----------some of this old world gear fetches in price tags in the thousands to hundreds of thousands dollars

    Vinyl music records and turn tables have hit the market for the last 10 years like never before and its a real busy industry again today as we speak, from a 0% market share industry to a 92% for profit industry in 2016
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  2.    30 Mar 2016 #352
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    They never actually stopped producing 12" turntables. Rap, Hip Hop, and other music forms have been seeing them in use for decades already. Many old analog radio stations still running will see the pro types in use.. And of course Hollywood can have anything made!

    When looking for some place that still might have a 5 button programmable trackball mouse similar to the old MS Trackball Explorer MS had first put out back in 2003-2004 and later discontinued I had ordered the last two here when finding them marked down from the $60 MSRP to only $30 at Amazon later to disappear entirely. Now go to Amazon and find the same for $569! That is what 3rd party sellers will be trying to rake in!

    When you see those kinds of mark ups you certainly don't worry much about spending a C note or so for a lifetime license on an av program you find works for you! That becomes a drop in the bucket for having less hassles with bugs and get by with fewer backups even while a good one every other month or so is always a good move. Just don't immediately toss the previous one too quickly!
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  3.    30 Mar 2016 #353
    Join Date : Jul 2015
    Posts : 135
    Windows 10 Enterprise (64-bit)

    Quote Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
    They never actually stopped producing 12" turntables. Rap, Hip Hop, and other music forms have been seeing them in use for decades already. Many old analog radio stations still running will see the pro types in use.. And of course Hollywood can have anything made!

    When looking for some place that still might have a 5 button programmable trackball mouse similar to the old MS Trackball Explorer MS had first put out back in 2003-2004 and later discontinued I had ordered the last two here when finding them marked down from the $60 MSRP to only $30 at Amazon later to disappear entirely. Now go to Amazon and find the same for $569! That is what 3rd party sellers will be trying to rake in!

    When you see those kinds of mark ups you certainly don't worry much about spending a C note or so for a lifetime license on an av program you find works for you! That becomes a drop in the bucket for having less hassles with bugs and get by with fewer backups even while a good one every other month or so is always a good move. Just don't immediately toss the previous one too quickly!
    @Night Hawk

    Your absolutely right on your statement,


    I work for M$ and do some work time to time for Apple Inc

    let me share with you this, Brand new PC's in a year or two will be going for 300.00 or less what is now mainstream is mobile that's where the big coin and development is going forward... by 2018 before 2020 you will see this major change and yes the desktop will start to vanish anytime around 2020 and onward, Smartphones and Tablets right across the mainstream and within enterprise

    Cheap production throw away philosophy if cant be repaired and the extra extended warrantee sector can thrive again within their merit, so everyone has a piece of the pie not just IT major players and in many ways that's a very good idea depending on the hardware manufactures and their employees and region if they are taken care of with good benefits and pay rates
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  4.    30 Mar 2016 #354
    Join Date : Jul 2015
    Posts : 419
    Windows 10 Pro 64bit v1709 build 16299.15

    Why is this thread still alive?
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  5.    30 Mar 2016 #355
    Join Date : Feb 2015
    Left coast but not a progressive liberal
    Posts : 964
    dual boot W10 10586th2/14291 rs1 Win. Insider since Jan. 2015


    Nighthawk


    On Radio in the US most of all broadcasting outside of local talking heads are digital productions & music and many mixed productions including the DJ voice overs are digital and completely automated end to end and owned by conglomerates like Clear Channel. PBS radio is probably digital distribution out to it's O&O's and affiliates now also like Clear Channel and the other big boys .



    OTOH a lot of talking head radio and mixed prod. DJ voicing starts out analog in the studios with a digital intermediate anyway but nobody's spinning vinyl anymore in the broad market that was all done for with broadcast tape cassettes in the 70's and some of that was 24/7 automation with a scheduled visit or on premise station engineer to load the cassette stackers and now that's all digital .


    The only broadcasters that may still spin vinyl are probably the low power stations that struggle to cover one square mile and nobody makes analog broadcast mixes or vinyl pressings for them anymore anyway .

    Some radio stations are just automated radio shacks ( not the stores ) with transmitters nearby or on the premises.


    Nighthawk
    They never actually stopped producing 12" turntables. Rap, Hip Hop, and other music forms have been seeing them in use for decades already. Many old analog radio stations still running will see the pro types in use.. And of course Hollywood can have anything made!

    Put simply the trendy millennials and fools are getting rolled about vinyl sound , (they dont know better ) contact media I.E. tape & vinyl are inferior media playback & recording formats to any lossless 16 or 24 bit digital media


    Vinyl is only really cool if you were there otherwise U can't feel it like those of us that grew up on it anyway
    and you need a pure analog start to finish LP or 45 /78 production anyway and that sounds better on digitized analog tape safety masters sourced from the labels in 16 or 24 bit lossless anyway . I have some of that ....actually quit a bit in 16 and 24 bit lossless ofc . No more shelves or stacks of LP's .

    Sorry Rap ,EDM and Hip hop production is all digital now as are virtually all recordings now . Nobody been sampling vinyl for eons outside of some fools on Youtube and some nostalgia disco monkey club DJ's .They even have digital DJ player/ samplers and scratchers now it's all about Midi & analog synths, and VST plug in samples & library's & VST analog HDWE emulators like we use here at the studio on the production side to make all that music and overlay the vocals into .

    We might load 100 or more VST 's and mixdown 100 tracks now these days it's all digital .

    They been doing digital recording at the labels since the mid'70's for the vinyl back then anyway tape was mostly early 70's and below at the the labels although Abby roads held out a while

    I'm not sure what the mix is there @abbyroads now but they probably still have some old Studer RtR pro decks if you break out some serious cash those things have to be aligned by a recording engineer every time they use them like they did back in the day .

    The weakest links in a modern digital recording chain are the microphones now.

    They even have classical music DAW's , VST libraries & digital production suites now and you can't always tell a good end to end digital production from a recorded production now as long as they don't auto tune the life out of it




    Vinyl LPs made today are being pressed on patched up ~ 40-50 year old pressing machines no longer in production and are being jury rigged due to a lack of spares in some cases .

    FWIW again Vinyl LPs made today mostly come from modern or vintage digital recordings like they did in the mid 70's and beyond anyway or digitized analog tape safety masters from the labels (or worse simply from CD mixes ) with RIAA EQ added before the cutter head in any case . IOW it's mostly a hustle on the millennials and fools that don't know any better that buy into the vinyl hype today ☻☻


    OTOH as opposed to 320 kbps high bit depth mp3 decent vinyl can almost always be better on a decent playback chain ☺

    Good lossless digital recording and playback without any or excessive loudness compression far exceeds the accuracy of vinyl and tape contact media the best contact media is 8 -11 bits and a CD is 16 bits and 24 bits is well beyond that .


    FWIW The best of my my best (& good sounding) digitized analog studio safety master copies top out at 650 ~750 mbps a 16 bit CD is 1141 mps .@ its lower nyquist rate of 20 -22,500 Hz which is all we need for playback and more than an adult can hear anyway...........





    Nighthawk
    When looking for some place that still might have a 5 button programmable trackball mouse similar to the old MS Trackball Explorer MS had first put out back in 2003-2004 and later discontinued I had ordered the last two here when finding them marked down from the $60 MSRP to only $30 at Amazon later to disappear entirely. Now go to Amazon and find the same for $569! That is what 3rd party sellers will be trying to rake in!

    When you see those kinds of mark ups you certainly don't worry much about spending a C note or so for a lifetime license on an av program you find works for you! That becomes a drop in the bucket for having less hassles with bugs and get by with fewer backups even while a good one every other month or so is always a good move. Just don't immediately toss the previous one too quickly!
    Right ...Maybe desirable to some like IBM AT mechanical keyboards going for maybe fair money but not broad market .
    Last edited by blutos cousin; 30 Mar 2016 at 21:47.
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  6.    30 Mar 2016 #356
    Join Date : Feb 2015
    Left coast but not a progressive liberal
    Posts : 964
    dual boot W10 10586th2/14291 rs1 Win. Insider since Jan. 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by lopedoggie View Post
    Why is this thread still alive?
    yea but lately we got bored with the thread topic though......
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  7.    30 Mar 2016 #357
    Join Date : Feb 2015
    Left coast but not a progressive liberal
    Posts : 964
    dual boot W10 10586th2/14291 rs1 Win. Insider since Jan. 2015

    AcuraTML


    The majority of old technology you just touched based on is alive and kicking ,,, " yes as we speak and never will be going anywhere and there is a strong demand in the current market...


    example: vinyl music records, and vintage audio, and 50 year old photo camera equipment and gear... <-----------some of this old world gear fetches in price tags in the thousands to hundreds of thousands dollars


    Vinyl music records and turn tables have hit the market for the last 10 years like never before and its a real busy industry again today as we speak, from a 0% market share industry to a 92% for profit industry in 2016
    92% profit unit /gross profit most likely before operating expenses and costs of goods and SAG in a niche and more likely temporary fad market hardly equates to an enduring broad market vinyl comeback..


    Unless you were there you have absolutely no idea about vinyl at all it's nothing by comparison today and will remain that way the music industry is digital .

    About collectors and big money .....people pay big money for rusted hulks of automobiles that require more big money to restore and snob audiophile and some camera collectors are equally foolish outside of the few collectors of all that know what's really valuable and not a passing fad and with automobiles maybe an investment..

    Again none of all that is broad market or ever will be the closest thing approaching that is 1950's and 1960 -1970's american classic ,vintage and muscle cars which is an industry in itself but again not broadmarket .


    Nobody around here much sends telegrams or watches CRT scan line no definition TV . There are no NTSC or PAL interlaced scan line analog TV broadcasts in the advanced developed nations now and modern photography is going ultimately to high end digital with much more resolution and dynamic range than film .

    OTOH quality mechanical and automatic mechanical movement watches like my Rollie 16610 seem to retain decent value over the years but they require periodic ,expensive servicing especially if you go to a Rollie AD
    they do whatever it takes to make it as new and nothing less and then give you the bill .

    I think Panavision long ago made it's last Hollywood movie cinematic & studio film cameras . The Panavision HD-900F digital cinema camera was a modified Sony HDW-F900 Digital Cinema camera and all the later ones for studios and cinema productions are using Sony digital Chassis and Sony optical sensors which is a big business unit at Sony Inc. Movie soundtracks and scores often mix digital and instrumental music but it's always laid down into digital recordings anyway .

    4K HDR TV has wider color space/gamut and dynamic range containers than 4K DCI-P3movie theater digital projection which in turn *can have more of all that than film i.e, 35mm film is about ~3500p @~ cinematic DCI-P3 color space as opposed to 4160p on a 4K TV at DCI-P3 which is attainable on any decent 4K WCG HDR 10 TV today and easily exceeded on DV production monitors and soon on DV HDR TV's


    Sony makes a 30" $30K RGB OLED HDR WCG production monitor that can probably do 12-14 bit color and 14 bit color and ~ 2000 NITS of Dynamic range is the most humans can see anyway .

    Not many film theaters around here left except for notalgia showings & venus and the studios only send out digital downloads or the weekly physical digital packages to the movie theaters now

    Even the few modern Movie productions from film as recently as 2015-2016 have 2K or 4K digital intermediates and distribution they don't send out film replications anymore and there are virtually totally automated digital broadcast and repeating facilities here and there now also .

    All that stuff is retro niche market or legit nostalgia & junk collector stuff or the 3rd world The infrastructure and supply chains no longer exist to make the majority of those products I listed in my last post in advanced nations outside of vinyl phonograph records and some film cameras and cherry switch keyboards and snob audiophile amplified devices using NOS Russian ,Eastern bloc and Soviet or modern vacuum tubes from those areas and vinyl phonograph turntables are coming back in the niche market and snob audiophile market they never left but nobody's making vinyl stackers anymore or broad market vinyl .
    Last edited by blutos cousin; 31 Mar 2016 at 00:30.
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  8.    30 Mar 2016 #358
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    You can try arguing all the specifics but the facts are many still want the old stuff the way they grew up with it! Besides commercial stations seeing the obvious air tapes and digital recordings for the tech head side of the broadcasting industry as well as analog tv stations were required to go digital several years ago you still have "live on location" type broadcasts as well as live gigs in studio where turntables are not the DJ's tool but the artist's or group'ss item.

    You missed the point on that one entirely there. The back and forth motion of a needle on vinyl creates an audio effect incorporated into the music itself. It's what when first the new trick for rappers, hip, etc. as the "New Sound" in that sense. Back in the 1960s when musicians were looking for something totally new someone named Robert Moog invented a synthesizer to create notes electronically. That lead to the boom during the 70s in that area. And one of the most famous tracks of all from that category came over the radio back in 1972. Popcorn Original Song - YouTube

    It's ironic how many posting of this one track being the first single and later one of the tracks on the only LP released by the group Butter. That saw butter melted over a sythesizer on the album cover.

    The image edited out here was from Amazon a currently seen shopping site indicating people still shop for old as well as new! And often the same is seen for the types of protections someone may prefer over some other on their own machine(s).
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  9.    30 Mar 2016 #359
    Join Date : Feb 2015
    Left coast but not a progressive liberal
    Posts : 964
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
    You can try arguing all the specifics but the facts are many still want the old stuff the way they grew up with it! Besides commercial stations seeing the obvious air tapes and digital recordings for the tech head side of the broadcasting industry as well as analog tv stations were required to go digital several years ago you still have "live on location" type broadcasts as well as live gigs in studio where turntables are not the DJ's tool but the artist's or group's item. .
    NO more film or tape at 11 it's all digital now even the cameras, broadcasting and re transmission
    the tech head side of broadcasting is usually sub par,dreadfully boring and niche market and not worth watching outside of some legitimate information for modern tech or vintage ,nostalgia collectors or hard core gaming .

    Plenty of very good 20th century nostalgic professional film scans / video uploads on Youtube and at Prelinger Archives on the web and retro TV at Hulu & Hulu +to get a nostalgia fix and plenty of lossless digitized analog music at Tidal Hi Fi from the labels digital safety masters to get that analog music fix . You can get similar lossless downloads from the niche labels too! .

    TBH honest I kinda like watching & hearing all that above quite a bit just not every day . I've got my retro,vintage YT downloads and playlists , Hulu Plus TV playlist's and some bookmark folders all like that along with the current stuff and analog > digital downloads and Tidal Hi Fi playlists for all that and newer so you score points there
    but none of it is broad market Hulu Plus is more abou modern/current TV and recent movies these days than it started out as but still plenty of SD retro TV

    IOW you don't need vinyl for the vinyl sound anymore or a scan line NTSC or PAL TV or VCR these are some points maybe you've missed

    Night Hawk
    You missed the point on that one entirely there. The back and forth motion of a needle on vinyl creates an audio effect incorporated into the music itself. It's what when first the new trick for rappers, hip, etc. as the "New Sound" in that sense. Back in the 1960s when musicians were looking for something totally new someone named Robert Moog invented a synthesizer to create notes electronically. That lead to the boom during the 70s in that area. And one of the most famous tracks of all from that category came over the radio back in 1972. Popcorn Original Song - YouTube



    Back and forth (actually side to side phono stylus motion would of course presume mono or 1 channel stereo whereas vertical and horizontal stylus motion is 2 channel vinyl stereo and the back and forth phono platter motion you may be referring to forced by a platter DJ is commonly done equally well or much better digitally with digital mixtrack controller/mixers now ......... besides vinyl has horrible inner groove distortion not present in digital outside of some linear tracking turntables or optical vinyl readers
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Night Hawk
    It's ironic how many posting of this one track being the first single and later one of the tracks on the only LP released by the group Butter. That saw butter melted over a synthesizer on the album cover.
    I don't know about all that I never tried to mix butter and vinyl phonograph albums

    Night Hawk
    The image edited out here was from Amazon a currently seen shopping site indicating people still shop for old as well as new! And often the same is seen for the types of protections someone may prefer over some other on their own machine(s).
    You can buy old on Craigs list list also and modern retro stuff just about anywhere and retro stuff junk or even modern retro refrigerators and range top /oven combos but it ain't the same as a 1947 Wedgewood gas range /oven or a 1953 Philco gravity evap frost monster refrigerator or a 1953 Buick Roadmaster with a virtual always slipping Dynaflow Transmission like the early 1959-early 1960's Chevy turboglide all of which are somewhat impractical these days and none of the modern retro will ever be broad market but yes some will prefer modern retro over modern modern and real retro /vintage now and then but when's the last time you saw a 1952 Buick Roadmaster ,59 Rambler or a 1950's rust rod for a daily driver and a restored Wedgwood range /oven costs substantially more than a decent oven/range short of a Viking .

    Unless you worked in manufacturing broadmarket goods ,commodities ,food multinational retailing ,raw materials or wholesaling or any of those supply chains or similar management or sales positions for a large multinational company or transporter or in logistics and or in the field you don't have a real idea of just what the scale of a broad market is , it doesn't translate well to PC screen or paper like living and seeing the scale of it all beyond store shelves ,Isles ,pogs or car lots or just the USA broad market .

    I know we like friendly discussion and rebuttal that's all good but you are geting into my areas of career expertise directly above including more lately the music industry and digital audio media (which I don't like as much as the above at all but it's the family business and more of a hobby business and investment of mine now
    ( even though I don't need the money for myself or in reality for the grown up immediate family it's for thier future and some present and more when I'm gone and they spend whatever I leave them ) and maybe on video we get into to a lesser extent to my videophile hobby knowledge but I don't consider it all an argument at all when I'm right anyway

    I'm watching a digital ~ 1080p > 1080i TV production on the 4K Sony HDR TV in here now from a 2K intermediate that is actually less than 1080i after Dish TV mpeg compression but it looks pretty decent upscaled to 4K and re mapped to a ~ DCI -P3 color space in the Sony TV (like only Sony can do right) and OTA is even better with the higher bit rates and channel bandwidth and Netflix and the others are sometimes even better than OTA .

    You can't do all that with analog line doublers or video processing like I had in my NTSC Sony XBR Trinitrons and the CRT tubes won't go DCI-P3 /2160p or HDR anyway and at 2ft I can't see any pixels .
    Last edited by blutos cousin; 31 Mar 2016 at 00:54.
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  10.    31 Mar 2016 #360
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    Night Hawk, AcuraTML

    Original 1999 genuine $90,000 maybe *Moog type*
    Synthesizer :
    http://gizmodo.com/moog-spent-three-...ith-1556087534


    Click image for larger version. 

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    21st century $99.00 basic Moog Synthesizer


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