Windows 10: Is paying for antivirus a waste of money?

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  1. Posts : 3,361
    W10 Pro x64/W7 Ultimate x64 dual boot main - W10 Pro Insider Preview/W7 Pro x64 - remote pc
       24 Mar 2016 #261

    What? Close it up before news can be added? Speaking of MS Office earlier here's something that will be a relief for some.

    Now Microsoft Office 2016 can block macro malware attacks

    Microsoft has a new tactical feature in Office 2016 that should go some way to protecting the enterprise from macro-based malware.



    By Liam Tung | March 24, 2016 -- 14:06 GMT (07:06 PDT)


    That report can be seen at Now Microsoft Office 2016 can block macro malware attacks | ZDNet

    And as for WD despite having mentioned there have been improvements since first seen in Vista doesn't mean it will be good for all circumstances but was intended by MS to be a temporary go between when first upgrading to or first seeing the Windows OS installed until some user is able to select a 3rd party software. It was never intended to be a permanent replacement for such.
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  2.    24 Mar 2016 #262

    Oh lord,.. more wall of text...

    Please.. you made your point about defender. I use it and like it.. so you're not convincing me that it's bad or otherwise.


    .
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  3. Posts : 964
    dual boot W10 10586th2/14291 rs1 Win. Insider since Jan. 2015
       24 Mar 2016 #263

    Bunny J
    Oh lord,.. more


    Please.. you made your point about defender. I use it and like it.. so you're not convincing me that it's bad or otherwise.
    No wall of text from me ........even if I saw some fud about WD up there

    ( WD on 10 been fine here on all this dual boot box for 15 mo. )
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  4. Posts : 3,361
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       24 Mar 2016 #264

    BunnyJ said: View Post
    Oh lord,.. more wall of text...

    Please.. you made your point about defender. I use it and like it.. so you're not convincing me that it's bad or otherwise.


    .
    Not exactly! and it isn't this person's own personal opinion either. Is Windows Defender Good Enough?

    But how good is this? Well, truth be told, Microsoft’s antivirus is a bit behind the others when it comes to comparative antivirus software tests. We’ve sounded the alarm on this before, and we were particularly worried because we had previously liked Microsoft’s antivirus product so much.
    And the reasons for that are simple! WD is only updated by the next version of Windows other then some patches by way of the WU. On the other hand when going to look at what will be the typical situation for full priced retail softwares is them being constantly updated with new definitions as the software companies become aware of new threats floating around the web. They keep regularly updated data bases as well as are constantly testing each new bug for not only seeing new definitions but also tend to offer separate special bug removal tools for some of the worst.

    The point of buying a software rather then simply counting everything on the updated version of the Microsoft Security Essentials which is actually what WD is the support teams can also help with instructing on how to remove bugs knowing that no program free or paid for is ever 100% insurance against the next new bug to come along. But you also see paid for support rather then MS simply turning a blind eye if you do manage to get some type of malware infection!
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  5. Posts : 964
    dual boot W10 10586th2/14291 rs1 Win. Insider since Jan. 2015
       24 Mar 2016 #265

    Night Hawk
    Not exactly! and it isn't this person's own personal opinion either. Is Windows Defender Good Enough?
    The point of buying a software rather then simply counting everything on the updated version of the Microsoft Security Essentials which is actually what WD is the support teams can also help with instructing on how to remove bugs knowing that no program free or paid for is ever 100% insurance against the next new bug to come along. But you also see paid for support rather then MS simply turning a blind eye if you do manage to get some type of malware infection!

    1.
    I'm back ....... U think paid stuff ain't buggy and they don't neglect all that sometimes for prolonged months or years on end ?

    2. I can support an argument to the contrary on a case by case basis with varying results either way but you can look it all up anyway ?

    3. Half the time consumer level support & level 2 support is as useless as a rubber hammer on 10 or 60 penny nails


    4. All that from How to Geek you linked above is from 2013 Before Windows 10 specific Windows Defender or Windows 10 and applicable to MSE anyway

    5. I read all that at HTG back then anyway when I was using AVG (free) instead on this PC on 7x64 like most folks that 'really knew anthing' then and maybe now and I'm an HTG subscriber ......

    6. And the " According to Holly Stewart,@ Microsoft business in the HTG article you linked is from 2011 !
    And the reasons for that are simple! WD is only updated by the next version of Windows
    7. Where is your supporting argument for this generalization since there there presumably won't be any Windows 10 successors ?

    8. IOW
    maybe you can't support your argument in 2016 all about WD on 10 specifically and I used do all that for a living i.e, supporting complex arguments far beyond the scope of this discussion at Fortune 100-200 multinational companies within the fortune 500 list as part of my AOR

    9. I'm not so sure you really want really want to go toe to toe with me with all this as it applies to WD on W10 vs what you posted above

    10. Almost Lastly .........& we all sort of agreed on all this paid vs free business vs user skills & security comfort levels around here anyway except maybe you don't get it already and a lot of us are willing to entertain some paid products may be better than WD ( that's never been a problem ) but none of them can keep up with the malware geyers even with 24 updates a day

    11. PS if You get a persistent nasty malware infection or trojan etc. beyond mbam & whatever AV protection (expert level users ) can use some one time use cleaners and reg edits again by expert level users or roll in a backup or just do it anyway if it looks bad .....or you can recover your files and folders from the Widows Healthy partition in any number of ways and scan them with something reliable if you know how and hope they aint infected (ruined by high strength cleaners if you did that ) or the scanner remediates all that if they are intact and only infected......

    Full Stop .
    Last edited by blutos cousin; 25 Mar 2016 at 00:07.
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  6. Posts : 3,361
    W10 Pro x64/W7 Ultimate x64 dual boot main - W10 Pro Insider Preview/W7 Pro x64 - remote pc
       25 Mar 2016 #266

    blutos cousin said: View Post
    No wall of text from me ........even if I saw some fud about WD up there

    ( WD on 10 been fine here on all this dual boot box for 15 mo. )
    No wall of text from who was that now? I think you just contradicted that one a bit!

    Now for WD or anything else the first fact to examine and you yourself have stated several times already that nothing is ever 100%! As far as bugs in softwares you have apparently run into something I have yet to see happen here with 10 not WD or any av program!

    The difference over any free program when being compared to any retail software is how fast any bugs discovered will be corrected. For one example when upgrading to the 2013 version of the paid for software here from the 2012 when the first 2yr. subscription was still in effect no one could connect to the web! The problem was soon corrected in days not weeks or months since the av company had to stay on top of things in order to stay via in the market. A network filter turned to be the item needing to be fixed.

    For some freebie like WD when will the next update come in? Lately it only seems to come right before the next build will go on and not any other time for weeks if not a few months at best. Periodic updates are the norm for any company while hot fixes are generally seen mostly for paid for softwares! Competition in the market place is what does the most to drive that.
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  7. Posts : 964
    dual boot W10 10586th2/14291 rs1 Win. Insider since Jan. 2015
       25 Mar 2016 #267

    Night Hawk said: View Post
    No wall of text from who was that now? I think you just contradicted that one a bit!

    Now for WD or anything else the first fact to examine and you yourself have stated several times already that nothing is ever 100%! As far as bugs in softwares you have apparently run into something I have yet to see happen here with 10 not WD or any av program!

    The difference over any free program when being compared to any retail software is how fast any bugs discovered will be corrected. For one example when upgrading to the 2013 version of the paid for software here from the 2012 when the first 2yr. subscription was still in effect no one could connect to the web! The problem was soon corrected in days not weeks or months since the av company had to stay on top of things in order to stay via in the market. A network filter turned to be the item needing to be fixed.

    For some freebie like WD when will the next update come in? Lately it only seems to come right before the next build will go on and not any other time for weeks if not a few months at best. Periodic updates are the norm for any company while hot fixes are generally seen mostly for paid for softwares! Competition in the market place is what does the most to drive that.

    No wall of text from who was that now? I think you just contradicted that one a bit!
    \

    I'll concede that point if you stop posting FUD in this thread how about that? or maybe I should anyway ?

    As far as bugs in softwares you have apparently run into something I have yet to see happen here with 10 not WD or any av program!
    Maybe you need to look a little harder or quit playing with those VM's like an addled schoolboy or sweat your hardware a little more or put some of all that on metal .

    .FWIW I have 5 Windows 10 operating systems all total here with 4 different PC configurations including a professional workstation configuration that earns real money and I been using Windows since a 386 SX AT clone was new ( mine. )

    for the 10th time I've also used Unix, Solaris Unix, SAP on Unix and SAP A I on the job scaled up to big iron since 286 SX CPU's were the norm with Widows NT & beyond for a lot of that time too i.e, that might translate into 50 or 60 years experience as compared to hobby use

    I think you are using one extreme example to support an unsupportable argument here ...........................I'll just leave it at that except I've seen critical hot fixes from AVG free and Avast free within a day or two maybe less, maybe WD also but maybe within a day or two outside of some vulnerabilities which can maybe take some time with MS or any vendor ......I'm sure MS has made a fair number of Hotfixes in 40 + years and maybe they prioritise things better or worse ?

    For any number of reasons you are obviously biased against free AV programs and Windows Defender et,al and I belive no one can convince you otherwise .

    TBH many of your arguments here in this tread don't hold water IMO like your reference to a 2013 HTG article and 2011 interview cited in the same article and all that applies to MSE and not WD on W10 like you were maybe trying to imply or did not understand ?

    I don't know that we can pursue a legitimate discussion any further on this subject with your deliberate bias so ..............
    Last edited by blutos cousin; 25 Mar 2016 at 02:11.
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  8. Posts : 3,361
    W10 Pro x64/W7 Ultimate x64 dual boot main - W10 Pro Insider Preview/W7 Pro x64 - remote pc
       25 Mar 2016 #268

    I think you missed something along the way! For those early IBM and AST systems a paid for software was all you saw back in the 90s! That was common practice. Later after XP had come along companies like AVG and Avast starting putting out free home trial versions with the boom of the home desktop market as hardwares were then starting to see fast turnovers. Everything had a place and everyone wanted in on it!

    Following the McAFail disappointment way back and Symantec System Works needing to be upgraded after 98SE that came after 95 was history having replaced 3.1 and dos back in those days and still finding ways to run dos apps where no av can work by the way! guess what came next? After hearing AVG was getting a fair rep in contrast to the "Norton Bloatware" screams I decided to give AVG a try and ran with it for several years, XP thru 7's start and launch that is! Afterwards having been finding addon toolbar and otther separate web programs in addition to the "Free AVG" note was gong to work I was pointed to the present software in use by a reliable source! After running the 30 day trials a few times long enough to see the results I went for the subscriptions and haven't regretted it one bit ever since!

    In fact it was fussy friends who wee hesitant to give up on the "paid for AVG" note that were the first to go with the lifetime license offer when getting additional laptops for spouse and kids! Yet it was also one of the laptops the kids were using the scamware found it's way on since someone clicked a bad link! The scam was for a fake anti-malware program that doesn't or never will exist being part of the scam! Fake trojans, the main executable immediately blocking access to the Task manager etc.

    Just one more example as mentioned before that no matter how good something may seem someone will find a way around it! Once the main file was removed the av software simply was then able to go to work in locating and removing the rest. But again that is still local on the drive detection/removal not web filtering that prevents in most cases other then the user interaction which allowed it on in the first place. This is why early on in this thread the mention about needing more then just av detection/removal was what going for a paid software was about to see those additional layers of prevention as well as protection being put to work.
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  9. Posts : 964
    dual boot W10 10586th2/14291 rs1 Win. Insider since Jan. 2015
       25 Mar 2016 #269

    Night Hawk
    I think you missed something along the way! For those early IBM and AST systems a paid for software was all you saw back in the 90s! That was common practice

    On the History lesson:
    I didn't miss anthing .....I was there (on the job) starting with 8086 networked IBM dumb terminals and dot or matrix printers or whatever they were and later 286 sx IBM AT configurations and so-on and so-on and so-on ....all scaled up to big Iron and a 386 SX AT clone (in the 90's ) when it was new at home and so-on until W10 today .... So thanks but no for the history lessons I lived through already .


    It's always been about business opportunities and money BTW but it's ultimately in the execution outside of monopolies and or lack of competition and I won't mention any products and we should really put this subject to bed .

    BTW We've already agreed web protection is a good idea for a lot of folks and I've conceded the fact that *some paid software may offer more protection than *some free stuff already , that's been common knowledge all along . .

    Again I've seen critical hot fixes from AVG free and Avast free within a day or two maybe less, maybe WD also but maybe within a day or two outside of some vulnerabilities which can maybe take some time with MS or any vendor .


    I've never had any free AV I used stop working altogether or kill my Web connection for any amount of time beyond a restart when something didn't ini at loading like paid premium MaCaFail did persistently or randomly with any given update and usually required a MaCaFail reinstall and cleaning before all that with the MaCaFail removal tool .


    You wouldn't belive all the stuff that MaCaFail & Norton paid put in the reg and left even after the removal cleaning tools /uninstalls it's all bloatware or at least it always was !

    Again I don't know that we can pursue a legitimate discussion any further on this subject with your deliberate bias and maybe mine also so ..............
    Last edited by blutos cousin; 25 Mar 2016 at 02:25.
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  10. Posts : 3,361
    W10 Pro x64/W7 Ultimate x64 dual boot main - W10 Pro Insider Preview/W7 Pro x64 - remote pc
       25 Mar 2016 #270

    The 8086 was still the new kid on the block while I repairing a much older series of notebooks. Didn't 20mb hard drives on those either. I almost walked out of a CB radio store with a brand new Epson HX-20 when seeing that for $399.99 new. You pulled the tickertape style printer off to insert the microcassette tape drive to store the programs you had to write up! Some pre-written programs that came on tape some included with the model others bought separately while you had to take care of the rest. Epson HX-20 computer

    That was in the stores back in 1982 for a history lesson while we are looking at the present where viruses, malwares, and other things have to be watched out for. As for bias I would have to it isn't simply av programs since any can still clean things up after the fact but the more full feature suits that offer quite a bit more as far as retail products are concerned that offer prevention as well as protection.

    With an effective web filtering that will detect malicious coding and block sites out you never arrive at one to contract any bugs to begin with. Other options like disabling scripts can help but in turn make things a bit more awkward for the majority.
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