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  1.    09 Feb 2016 #141

    Night Hawk said: View Post
    Dolphins are like that as well but won't work out too well in a space suit!
    Quite a lot heavier as well which would be expensive to lift into orbit, especially as the water in the tank would weigh quite a lot as well.

    What was this thread about again?
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  2. Joined : Apr 2014
    Posts : 3,313
    W10 Pro x64/W7 Ultimate x64 dual boot main - W10 Pro Insider Preview/W7 Pro x64 - remote pc
       09 Feb 2016 #142

    Winuser said: View Post
    Does anybody remember Laika? If you do, you're telling showing your age.
    [QUOTE=Wynona;560289]Must be one of the Russian astronauts?

    blutos cousin said: View Post
    Originally Posted by blutos cousin

    I agree with W 10 having more features and convenience . I have normally activated Windows 10 10586 th2 on 3 PC's here aside from 14257 rs1 and 10586 th2 on this PC on the same NTFS HDD by choice .

    HDWE Benchmarks don't always reflect how we use our PC's .

    My impression is with the compressed memory page file and other code optimizations Windows 10 is mostly faster or no slower on the web and for casual lt. office use etc. than Win 7 and PC gaming is real decent here and then there is the DX12 api for the gamer's and the significantly reduced latency audio stack in Windows 10 . < The music folks are liking that it can otherwise cost many thousands of $$$ in HDWE for the same latency reduction

    OTOH for heavy grunt work like compiling and checking code that might be another matter.... maybe some one here could enlighten us on that and tell us which OS is faster there. FWIW some of the dev's at the Windows Insider forums favor Windows 7 there and there have been some lively discussions about that .

    AFAIK Windows 10 lost a lot of unnecessary legacy code along with getting a more efficient Kernel ,DX 12 and a new audio and video stack ,compressed memory page file ,significant code optimization and *may have a smaller footprint than Win 7 .

    I could check the 2 Win pro ISO file sizes without accounting for variances in compressible (compressed ) file sizes . I have both of them

    The run time or ( metro style apps ) and new features are probably insignificant in size as first installed without any additions from the Windows store compared to the rest of the OS .

    Even with all my windows store apps in addition to the embedded run time apps altogether they only take up 6.3 GB

    Lastly I have to wonder if the changes to Windows 10 altogether and the compressed Ram page file aren't skewing the Passmark HDD Mark and Memory Mark results ..........or very cleverly compensating for slower HDD and memory I/O throughput

    None the less the Windows 10 Passmark scores vs Windows 7 myself and some others posted can (and did ) make for an interesting discussion and tweak the MS storm troopers and the W 10 fanboy noses at MS on the Insider forums......... maybe here also with some of the members at some point or in another thread who knows ?

    OTOH large multiple file enumerations outside of benchmarks is slower on W 10 in my experience and not by a small amount ( time ) either but I haven't timed it lately since long before these rs1 builds .

    AFAIK to do it right you need 2 similarly configured clean installs on the same NTFS HDD and the same files without any significant fragmentation .....maybe a sequential drive image write to the same partitioned NTFS HDD would be a better test
    It's actually a tight comparison when you consider the bloat that plummeted Vista but gone in 7 has actually been trimmed further from what had been brought in new by 8! That would be the Metro and tabletized form of changes being seen in order to combine mobile with desktop but unlike the "Fabulous Foobar" seen when MS decided to thrust that mess out on the market and no longer hearing that but 7/8.1 showing how embarrassing it must be when mentioned the folly seen with MS and "Storm Troopers"? at this time isn't with 10 itself as explained the continued work on the kernel is showing with 10 being a much larger OS and also why it takes as long as 8 to go on clean due to the improvements in hardware detection over the need to find and download updates separately for past versions in general!

    That has been a vast improvement in simply allowing the 10 installer to generally but still not in everything locate things for you. Some OEM drivers still require a visit to the support sites in order to see working results. But it's no longer you must be there to find everything yourself task what what has been observed here.

    Benchmarks are always going to be the more questionable since in most circumstances you can't compare results seen in tightly controlled situations be measured against actual real world environments and users. There are simply too many variables that could be encountered. But when taking notes you have to examine the users in relation to what is found to be best for each instance. 10 will be an improvement for some while not what is needed for someone else in that 10 being three versions newer more or less still sets a new standard.

    As for gaming while many raved on about XP in years past with Vista and 7 close cousins there you might have to download and install the full version of DX9 for older titles while in 10 those same titles are no longer requiring DX9 which wouldn't even go on as well as no longer running into the OpenGL issues up until this point at least.

    lx07 said: View Post
    Quite a lot heavier as well which would be expensive to lift into orbit, especially as the water in the tank would weigh quite a lot as well.

    What was this thread about again?
    Launching a tank full of water would be a project in it's own and would require something like the shuttle which wouldn't have been around at the time in order to sub dolphin for monkey! And as for the main topic here once a thread grows large it will tend to veer a bit off topic at times! That is seen quite often until someone else will come in and either ask a topic related question or make an observation based on the thread topic itself like: "Do you think 10 will outsell XP or 7?". You never know!
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  3.    09 Feb 2016 #143

    Night Hawk said: View Post
    "Do you think 10 will outsell XP or 7?". You never know!
    Please, no, don't talk about these questions! There is enough of that sort of thing in the news section.

    14257 is a solid build and works as well for me as 10586 (the previous RS1 builds were quite significantly less reliable).

    Who knows what MS is testing but if the best you can say for an insider build is "it isn't much worse" MS will hemorrhage insider testers.

    They should throw us a bone (Edge extensions perhaps) or most people will just install the new build in a VM, have a quick scooby, think "nothing new here" and give up.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  4. Joined : Apr 2014
    Posts : 3,313
    W10 Pro x64/W7 Ultimate x64 dual boot main - W10 Pro Insider Preview/W7 Pro x64 - remote pc
       09 Feb 2016 #144

    lx07 said: View Post
    Please, no, don't talk about these questions! There is enough of that sort of thing in the news section.

    14257 is a solid build and works as well for me as 10586 (the previous RS1 builds were quite significantly less reliable).

    Who knows what MS is testing but if the best you can say for an insider build is "it isn't much worse" MS will hemorrhage insider testers.

    They should throw us a bone (Edge extensions perhaps) or most people will just install the new build in a VM, have a quick scooby, think "nothing new here" and give up.
    That wasn't a point of main discussion but simply an example of what can be seen when and if someone does ask away. I could have used any number of hypothetic examples there.

    Now as for being on the MS forums whichever one that happens to be the term "Storm Troopers" is an expression that would be better rephrased as "Product Motivated", "Product Sensitive", etc. since each of those sites has only one motive in general being "Keep the product moving"! You are in a brand specific environment where "image is everything" and why they may tend to screen things posted a bit more harshly! You simply get a test of the corporate world reality while being there!

    Edge itself is actually in a sense a new bone being tossed at everyone! It replaces a tired worn out IE still not quite upto par since it can't really be updated to the present standards as far as effectiveness and security depite what efforts have been put since XP's "IE 6 Frightmare....."! You can sure many were relieved in past years when IE 7 first arrived! But at this late date MS is playing a new ball game bringing in a sandbox type browser that will help keep the main system isolated from the harsh realities of the web as far as all the crap slinging that goes on between malwares and other things.

    To examine that further while the wait will still be for the gradual improvements to come at first I went at Edge blindly not investigatively looking into every detail but walking into it blindly to see what the most often to be seen "first impressions" would be. And that has been not so good!

    On the other side of the coin however it simply takes a few more steps to get the same things done and lacks the familiar right click options everyone had grown accustomed to being the initial setback for the first time look! The blind look here found it difficult and seemingly impossible to rearrange Favorites on the bar by clicking and dragging things you would normally see done on IE, FF, and most other browsers. The lack of the menu bar option makes it resemble Chrome far more then anything like IE had been while you still have the options seen in buttons with symbols to the right as well as the forward and backward arrows.

    Now as for builds whenever any previous version was first seen even in RTM there were problems! But take a look at how things added up between past versions alone to see how MS has been rethinking things a bit?! XP finally saw SP3 only after 7 was out in beta form! Vista saw SP2 after the much needed SP1 corrected a few goofs there and smoothed things out. Vista Pro actually went over well with a large number of businesses including Merriam-Webster at the time. But 7 saw only SP1! Something changed BIG TIME! That one immediately got the "Run right out of the Box" type reputation in a fast furry! "party time people!" as 7 took off like a rocket! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzooming into OS paradise could be one way to put that.

    With 10 so far the analogy is seeing a working OS after 8 Flop Central smoothed out somewhat by 8.1 was a major letdown for any Vista/7 users wanting a look at the newer. With the first public release being the 10240 there again were the typical bugs to be worked out while the upgrade from 10565, 10576, 10586 Insider Preview builds in that succession saw the Threshold 2 Updare also the 10586 under a different name replaced with the 14257 here and not one iota to worry about.

    Well except that was seen on a 10 Home VM while the 10 host/boot OS also being Insider builds since the 10240 first arrived on the second machine still hasn't seen anything since the TH2 come in! Set to automatic and Fast yet nothing but Windows Defender updates having problems going on?! There's a 3rd party software running the show there which includes a firewall and even when disabled the update fails! And on the VM that did see the 14257 go on that same update was a little stubborn at first but did go on and then a few hours later only then saw another update arrive! It won' take much to figure out what that was!
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  5. Joined : Jan 2015
    Posts : 598
    Windows 10 and windows 8.1
       09 Feb 2016 #145

    Does anyone have any ideas about how I can download the more recent builds? I stopped receiving builds and have not been able to get them on my desktop computer. I have done a reinstall of the latest iso - 10586 - since all I could get after 11099 was Microsoft Virtual C++ (35 of them). I had not made an iso of any build since 10576, so I went back to find out what the latest iso was and it was 10586. I installed it, had no problems with it and with the activation. I reinstated the "Get Insider Build" status on fast track. NO DOWNLOADS except an occasional Windows Defender definition update. I have had two days since the reinstall and NOTHING! Please give me some idea of what to try next.
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  6. Joined : Apr 2014
    Posts : 3,313
    W10 Pro x64/W7 Ultimate x64 dual boot main - W10 Pro Insider Preview/W7 Pro x64 - remote pc
       09 Feb 2016 #146

    I'm afraid you are just one of the many since the two of us are not the only ones not seeing newer builds arrive. Here I have a total of one Pro VM on the main build's 7 side of the 10/7 dual boot activated on VM and still seeing the Threshold 2 upgrade over the 10586 Insider and then nothing. On the second desktop where the host is 10 and the TH2 upgrade over the 10576 Insider Preview build NADA happens. By apparently some fluke however may be from being the Home edition? The VM on the 7 side there also having been an upgrade to the TH2 from the 10586 Insider instead saw the 14257 come soon after getting that latest WD update to go after several tries. Once the cache on that one update was cleared it would seem that left things open for the latest!
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  7.    09 Feb 2016 #147

    magilla said: View Post
    Does anyone have any ideas about how I can download the more recent builds? .
    You could just download the esd.

    Try searching @wzor.net or something like that.
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  8. Joined : Apr 2014
    Posts : 3,313
    W10 Pro x64/W7 Ultimate x64 dual boot main - W10 Pro Insider Preview/W7 Pro x64 - remote pc
       09 Feb 2016 #148

    I doubt you would want anything other then a direct download from one of the MS sites such as from the MSDN or TechNet pages if not using the Media Creation tool or going to the Tech Bench Program's download page to insure you get what you are looking for! The Insider builds themselves are an option in the new version itself other then signing up for the program and come by way of the updates with the exception of a few seen like the 10565 page for a few of the one time only at Tech Bench page likely still seeing the Threshold 2 update.
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  9. Joined : Jan 2014
    Oak Ridge TN, USA
    Posts : 23,936
    Windows 10 Pro x64
       09 Feb 2016 #149

    lx07 said: View Post
    Please, no, don't talk about these questions! There is enough of that sort of thing in the news section.

    14257 is a solid build and works as well for me as 10586 (the previous RS1 builds were quite significantly less reliable).

    Who knows what MS is testing but if the best you can say for an insider build is "it isn't much worse" MS will hemorrhage insider testers.

    They should throw us a bone (Edge extensions perhaps) or most people will just install the new build in a VM, have a quick scooby, think "nothing new here" and give up.
    That would be nice to see extensions but I really don't want to see MS bog Edge down with junk. And the insider program is for die hard testers and for people who are willing to wait and see what's up next.

    I really enjoy the program.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10.    09 Feb 2016 #150

    BunnyJ said: View Post
    That would be nice to see extensions but I really don't want to see MS bog Edge down with junk. And the insider program is for die hard testers and for people who are willing to wait and see what's up next.

    I really enjoy the program.
    As do I but all of the rs1 builds have been less reliable than 10586 (many programs didn't work). Only with 14257 is it even approximating the same reliability but with zero functional improvement.

    I'll install the next build for sure. I will not install another 10 builds though if there is no functionality change and the best I can hope for is "it doesn't seem to make it much worse"
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