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  1.    08 Feb 2015 #51
    Join Date : Nov 2013
    Idaho USA
    Posts : 4,826
    OS X, Win 10

    Quote Originally Posted by TechnoMage View Post
    I've been an OS Beta Tester, since.....well.....a long time, and many OS's ago.
    But through all that downloading, installing and testing, only one OS remains on my main HD as my everyday OS.....Windows XP-Pro-SP3 (32bit).
    It still works a treat and runs all of the programs, even old 16bit programs, that I use every day.

    I've looked at every OS since XP with an open mind and still I don't see a one that I can use with the same ease that I have with XP.

    I never try to get a customer of mine, to upgrade to a new OS. I'm still getting new customers who have XP and the only problem they are having with it is that their HD is so loaded the Malware, temp files and other pure CRAP, that the poor old OS can hardly even run.
    It becomes like an old pick-up truck, with two tons of iron in the back of it. It labors under the excessive load!
    After a thorough cleaning and some tweaking, that should have been done at Setup, I get comments like "WOW, it never ran that good when it was new!". All I can say is "yeah, I know, , , it's what I do!".
    I've spent the last 35 years, trying to get the very best performance out of every PC that I've worked on.
    Every OS has come out with a bunch of 'SAFE Defaults' that can be bypassed to greatly improve performance.

    With regular maintenance, and a good package of Anti-Malware software, XP can still be running into the next Decade.
    That's my own hope anyway.

    So far, the only OS that I can ever see me using as a replacement for XP, would be Windows 10 Pro.(32 bit)
    And, I don't even see me using that, for the foreseeable future, like till the formal full release hits the streets, and maybe with a few updates to fix any bugs.

    Even XP wasn't really a GREAT OS, till SP3 came out.

    Cheers Mates!
    TechnoMage
    PS: I have successfully installed an old 16 bit (DOS) game, purchased in 1990, (on a 3.5" Floppy Disk,) onto my laptop, now running Windows 10, ver 9926/32 bit. The OS had to add compatibility for the old software, but that was no problem, it did it all by itself. I had the same experience with Windows 8.1 Pro/32.
    With good backward compatibility, Windows 10 might just be a good replacement for XP, Vista and Win-7.
    If it can be had for free, all the better.
    Just for fun, here's my new Windows 10 Desktop, with my old 16 bit MaJongg program running.
    I'll bet you were even a Commodore Vic 20 Beta tester, or even Apple "E". . .
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  2.    09 Feb 2015 #52
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Posts : 37
    windows 7, 8.0, and Ubuntu multi-boot laptop / 10 on Surface tblt

    It becomes a question of 'who is serving who'?

    To put it another way: Is MS there for the customer; or is the customer there for MS?

    Liking the idea of Win10. Although if MS still sold XP, Win7.... I would be happy to have more options.

    Their attitude is like- Well, you've got a car that runs fine, and would continue to run for the next 1,000,000 miles... but we are no longer making parts for it. So you need to throw your car away and buy our new model. Yes, a copy of Windows is cheaper than a car, but the principle is the same.

    True, MS might be a little smaller if they continued to offer XP/Win7, etc... But their customers would be happier.

      My ComputerSystem Spec
  3.    09 Feb 2015 #53
    Join Date : Jan 2014
    Oak Ridge TN, USA
    Posts : 24,499
    Windows 10 Pro x64

    Quote Originally Posted by dperecky View Post
    It becomes a question of 'who is serving who'?

    To put it another way: Is MS there for the customer; or is the customer there for MS?

    Liking the idea of Win10. Although if MS still sold XP, Win7.... I would be happy to have more options.

    Their attitude is like- Well, you've got a car that runs fine, and would continue to run for the next 1,000,000 miles... but we are no longer making parts for it. So you need to throw your car away and buy our new model. Yes, a copy of Windows is cheaper than a car, but the principle is the same.

    True, MS might be a little smaller if they continued to offer XP/Win7, etc... But their customers would be happier.

    Have you tried out Win10TP yet and what do you think of it, if you have??
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  4.    09 Feb 2015 #54
    Join Date : Jan 2014
    Washington
    Posts : 302
    Windows 10 10586

    Quote Originally Posted by groze View Post

    Coke Robot

    I usually open my checkbook up first. The second is email, the third is a browser. Leave it it me to be odd. I see nothing wrong with having 4 to 8 or more tabs open. I currently have six open. Why do you think having tabs open is not the most efficient way? I have seen screenshots of the spartan browsers it will have multiple tabs as well.

    You did forgot one thing though, Most business don't use the internet when they first turn on the computer, they do business stuff. Like using office. Some businesses the internet is even blocked from being used.


    Quote Originally Posted by BunnyJ View Post
    I've been under the impression that the majority of PC/Computer users just stick with the OS that comes with the PC/Computer. The thought of upgrading to a new OS just never enters their minds.

    Just my 2c
    Jeff
    I agree with you BunnyJ. I wouldn't of got a windows 7 computer last year if my old system was not on the last leg.
    It may not be odd to you, but it's not the most effective way, nor the most efficient.

    Keeping a tab open for you email means you would have to constantly going back to that tab and refreshing it manually for new emails whereas using the live tile solution would consist of just briefly checking the tile if there is new email or checking for email notifications in Windows 10. The elder method of having to search for content isn't effective as you spend time doing just that, searching for content. Windows 7 is based off a UI design meant for files and programs and not so much for the internet. We spend so much time on the internet these days that using a UI model like just isn't the best.

    The usage scenario becomes interacting with a browser program to search for new content actively whereas the Windows 8 and 10 model is designed to have the OS to natively deliver you relevant content TO YOU instead of you actively hunting it down.

    There was once a thread over at Eight Forums that nailed this point right down. A Start Screen of live tiles with content you're interested in delivers you better information at a glance. If you saw a headline that peaks your interest, you'd open that app to read the headline article. Before with Windows 7 and earlier, you'd need to open your browser, navigate to your favorite news maker site, skim through all those articles to see what peaks your interest in reading further. What's sounds quicker to you?

    Some business do block the internet, but not all. Some business have their own specific LOB apps that do use the internet and those apps would be the first thing that is ran. That's perfectly fine and all, which is why Windows 10 is designed the way it is to bridge the gap of an older UI model and a newer one. This doesn't go to say that LOB apps can't stand to be redesigned for the newer way of things where, for example a retail management app. I've personally seen this myself on old Windows Mobile handsets where it used to be a simple icon that you'd need to tap on to open the app and navigate through an iffy UI to see what orders need to be prioritized and how many there are altogether. A live tile UI method would just simple show relevant information like that right there from the Start Screen without me having to do anything.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  5.    09 Feb 2015 #55
    Join Date : Jan 2014
    Washington
    Posts : 302
    Windows 10 10586

    Quote Originally Posted by dperecky View Post
    It becomes a question of 'who is serving who'?

    To put it another way: Is MS there for the customer; or is the customer there for MS?

    Liking the idea of Win10. Although if MS still sold XP, Win7.... I would be happy to have more options.

    Their attitude is like- Well, you've got a car that runs fine, and would continue to run for the next 1,000,000 miles... but we are no longer making parts for it. So you need to throw your car away and buy our new model. Yes, a copy of Windows is cheaper than a car, but the principle is the same.

    True, MS might be a little smaller if they continued to offer XP/Win7, etc... But their customers would be happier.

    I need to poke a hole in the car metaphor.

    My car is 25 years, one month and eight days old. It should easily last me 350,000 miles if it's properly maintained before tranny or engine overhauls. Problem is, Mazda doesn't supply nor make many parts for it anymore. They do carry some parts, like the auto adjusting struts, but since not many people drive those cars anymore they aren't obligated to service the car especially since it's well out of warranty. Not only that, but the engine, transmission, emissions, suspension and every other technology has progressed in leaps and bounds for the better. Yes, it's a shame they don't continue to provide all the parts for it nor make certain parts anymore. If they did, there wouldn't be a sleek and damned gorgeous 2015 Mazda 6 that even though outweighs my old 626 like no other, it gets much better mileage than my car.

    Point being, technologies progress and make further innovations.

    If we kept the idea that automakers, or software makers, were obligated to support and maintain incredibly old technologies, progress and innovation suffers because why make a SkyActiv engine with better transmissions that gets impeccable mileage even though the car is basically a rolling studio apartment? Why keep holding onto 15 year old operating systems when newer systems are incredibly resilient in regards to malware and performance and efficiency?

    Even though Microsoft could make xp a top notch secure operating system, it would end up being Windows 10. It may seem like it's a totally new and foreign thing, but even if you dive down into the core of the OS, there are similarities in 10 and Xp. It's much like my old 626 and the new Mazda 6. Even though they're two different models and different years, there are some genuine similarities that feel familiar, yet different; mostly since the 6 came from the 626 lineage.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  6.    09 Feb 2015 #56
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Posts : 37
    windows 7, 8.0, and Ubuntu multi-boot laptop / 10 on Surface tblt

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dperecky View Post
    It becomes a question of 'who is serving who'?

    To put it another way: Is MS there for the customer; or is the customer there for MS?

    Liking the idea of Win10. Although if MS still sold XP, Win7.... I would be happy to have more options.

    Their attitude is like- Well, you've got a car that runs fine, and would continue to run for the next 1,000,000 miles... but we are no longer making parts for it. So you need to throw your car away and buy our new model. Yes, a copy of Windows is cheaper than a car, but the principle is the same.

    True, MS might be a little smaller if they continued to offer XP/Win7, etc... But their customers would be happier.

    I need to poke a hole in the car metaphor.

    My car is 25 years, one month and eight days old. It should easily last me 350,000 miles if it's properly maintained before tranny or engine overhauls. Problem is, Mazda doesn't supply nor make many parts for it anymore. They do carry some parts, like the auto adjusting struts, but since not many people drive those cars anymore they aren't obligated to service the car especially since it's well out of warranty. Not only that, but the engine, transmission, emissions, suspension and every other technology has progressed in leaps and bounds for the better. Yes, it's a shame they don't continue to provide all the parts for it nor make certain parts anymore. If they did, there wouldn't be a sleek and damned gorgeous 2015 Mazda 6 that even though outweighs my old 626 like no other, it gets much better mileage than my car.

    Point being, technologies progress and make further innovations.

    If we kept the idea that automakers, or software makers, were obligated to support and maintain incredibly old technologies, progress and innovation suffers because why make a SkyActiv engine with better transmissions that gets impeccable mileage even though the car is basically a rolling studio apartment? Why keep holding onto 15 year old operating systems when newer systems are incredibly resilient in regards to malware and performance and efficiency?

    Even though Microsoft could make xp a top notch secure operating system, it would end up being Windows 10. It may seem like it's a totally new and foreign thing, but even if you dive down into the core of the OS, there are similarities in 10 and Xp. It's much like my old 626 and the new Mazda 6. Even though they're two different models and different years, there are some genuine similarities that feel familiar, yet different; mostly since the 6 came from the 626 lineage.
    Without a doubt, the new 2015 Mazda would be better. But you sound like you've grown attached to your old one.

    Same with Win10. Sure it will be better than XP. Let's hope so, anyways.

    That's not really the point though.

    For an example, Let's say your older car was in top-notch condition. You would then probably not be pleased to read that Mazda is strongly encouraging you to give up your older car... and this only because of the sake of 'innovation', essentially forcing you to switch before you're ready.... to 'help the company'. That would seem totally unreasonable, yes?

    IMO, the ideal situation would be that you can keep your old car, and also purchase the newer model IF you want to. More choices.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  7.    09 Feb 2015 #57
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Posts : 1,552
    W7 32 bit, Linux Mint Xfce 18 64 bit

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post

    It may not be odd to you, but it's not the most effective way, nor the most efficient.

    Keeping a tab open for you email means you would have to constantly going back to that tab and refreshing it manually for new emails whereas using the live tile solution would consist of just briefly checking the tile if there is new email or checking for email notifications in Windows 10. The elder method of having to search for content isn't effective as you spend time doing just that, searching for content. Windows 7 is based off a UI design meant for files and programs and not so much for the internet. We spend so much time on the internet these days that using a UI model like just isn't the best.

    The usage scenario becomes interacting with a browser program to search for new content actively whereas the Windows 8 and 10 model is designed to have the OS to natively deliver you relevant content TO YOU instead of you actively hunting it down.

    There was once a thread over at Eight Forums that nailed this point right down. A Start Screen of live tiles with content you're interested in delivers you better information at a glance. If you saw a headline that peaks your interest, you'd open that app to read the headline article. Before with Windows 7 and earlier, you'd need to open your browser, navigate to your favorite news maker site, skim through all those articles to see what peaks your interest in reading further. What's sounds quicker to you?

    Some business do block the internet, but not all. Some business have their own specific LOB apps that do use the internet and those apps would be the first thing that is ran. That's perfectly fine and all, which is why Windows 10 is designed the way it is to bridge the gap of an older UI model and a newer one. This doesn't go to say that LOB apps can't stand to be redesigned for the newer way of things where, for example a retail management app. I've personally seen this myself on old Windows Mobile handsets where it used to be a simple icon that you'd need to tap on to open the app and navigate through an iffy UI to see what orders need to be prioritized and how many there are altogether. A live tile UI method would just simple show relevant information like that right there from the Start Screen without me having to do anything.
    Remember, I said I am odd. As far as my mail checking I do that in two ways, my email client or selecting a different profile to use in firefox. It really helps to have banking sites and web based email opened upped in a separate profile then your normal browsing profile. For example. I can open my banking in tab. If it needs a code or something. I can open up another tab and go to my web based email which is already logged in.

    For my normal browsing and forums. For example, When I get notification from my email client that threads have been responded to, I open up each website in a tab to read. The only issue I have for each website, I have to click to go back to the email client.

    Google Chrome browser can do stuff like live titles know like the app launcher. There is also something else called 8GadgetPack that can also do some of those things, I am using the weather gadget.

    If you click on more info on Windows live titles in Windows 10 and it shows the live title in full screen, isn't that just internet explorer without the toolbar?

    You can also set your mouse to a single click to open up desktop, pinned taskbar and other folder icons with just one click.


    Edited for clarification.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  8.    09 Feb 2015 #58
    Join Date : Jan 2014
    Washington
    Posts : 302
    Windows 10 10586

    Quote Originally Posted by dperecky View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dperecky View Post
    It becomes a question of 'who is serving who'?

    To put it another way: Is MS there for the customer; or is the customer there for MS?

    Liking the idea of Win10. Although if MS still sold XP, Win7.... I would be happy to have more options.

    Their attitude is like- Well, you've got a car that runs fine, and would continue to run for the next 1,000,000 miles... but we are no longer making parts for it. So you need to throw your car away and buy our new model. Yes, a copy of Windows is cheaper than a car, but the principle is the same.

    True, MS might be a little smaller if they continued to offer XP/Win7, etc... But their customers would be happier.

    I need to poke a hole in the car metaphor.

    My car is 25 years, one month and eight days old. It should easily last me 350,000 miles if it's properly maintained before tranny or engine overhauls. Problem is, Mazda doesn't supply nor make many parts for it anymore. They do carry some parts, like the auto adjusting struts, but since not many people drive those cars anymore they aren't obligated to service the car especially since it's well out of warranty. Not only that, but the engine, transmission, emissions, suspension and every other technology has progressed in leaps and bounds for the better. Yes, it's a shame they don't continue to provide all the parts for it nor make certain parts anymore. If they did, there wouldn't be a sleek and damned gorgeous 2015 Mazda 6 that even though outweighs my old 626 like no other, it gets much better mileage than my car.

    Point being, technologies progress and make further innovations.

    If we kept the idea that automakers, or software makers, were obligated to support and maintain incredibly old technologies, progress and innovation suffers because why make a SkyActiv engine with better transmissions that gets impeccable mileage even though the car is basically a rolling studio apartment? Why keep holding onto 15 year old operating systems when newer systems are incredibly resilient in regards to malware and performance and efficiency?

    Even though Microsoft could make xp a top notch secure operating system, it would end up being Windows 10. It may seem like it's a totally new and foreign thing, but even if you dive down into the core of the OS, there are similarities in 10 and Xp. It's much like my old 626 and the new Mazda 6. Even though they're two different models and different years, there are some genuine similarities that feel familiar, yet different; mostly since the 6 came from the 626 lineage.
    Without a doubt, the new 2015 Mazda would be better. But you sound like you've grown attached to your old one.

    Same with Win10. Sure it will be better than XP. Let's hope so, anyways.

    For an example, Let's say your older car was in top-notch condition. You would then probably not be pleased to read that Mazda is strongly encouraging you to give up your older car... and this only because of the sake of 'innovation', essentially forcing you to switch before you're ready.... to 'help the company'. That would seem totally unreasonable, yes?
    Indeed, this is true...

    I'd rather have the Euro spec touring wagon version of the 6 than the sedan as my 626 is a hatchback sedan, meaning a dryer can fit in it. Even though the 6 is downright gorgeous, it doesn't have some of the cool tricks up its sleeve that my 626 has or can have. The thing that was surprising was in the Mazda 3 how it has a digital tachometer but analog speedometer, mine is fully digital. Also, I have a lead to the auto adjusting suspension system electronics to fit onto my car, something that the newer 6s lack among other things like oscillating air vents. I am attached to my car, but I did talk myself into buying a newer 6 some time in the future.

    If anyone was forcing me off of something for that simple reason, I wouldn't be too impressed. But no one is. Microsoft is very keen on getting people off of xp as best they can. If they TRULY wanted to force people off, they'd be causing nuisances like reboots every two hours, constant pop ups saying this operating system is older than dirt, please upgrade. If xp is what you want to stay on until you die, no one is saying you can't, it's just that you won't get getting anything new since the technologies from 2001, both hard and software, are incredibly inferior than today. Even some web developers try to force you off your current browser if it's out of date because they don't want to develop the site for a browser that isn't used much.

    But I don't expect Mazda to warranty my car for as long as I have it, nor do I expect them to be building SkyActiv engines that fit my 626.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  9.    09 Feb 2015 #59
    Join Date : Jan 2014
    Washington
    Posts : 302
    Windows 10 10586

    Quote Originally Posted by groze View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post

    It may not be odd to you, but it's not the most effective way, nor the most efficient.

    Keeping a tab open for you email means you would have to constantly going back to that tab and refreshing it manually for new emails whereas using the live tile solution would consist of just briefly checking the tile if there is new email or checking for email notifications in Windows 10. The elder method of having to search for content isn't effective as you spend time doing just that, searching for content. Windows 7 is based off a UI design meant for files and programs and not so much for the internet. We spend so much time on the internet these days that using a UI model like just isn't the best.

    The usage scenario becomes interacting with a browser program to search for new content actively whereas the Windows 8 and 10 model is designed to have the OS to natively deliver you relevant content TO YOU instead of you actively hunting it down.

    There was once a thread over at Eight Forums that nailed this point right down. A Start Screen of live tiles with content you're interested in delivers you better information at a glance. If you saw a headline that peaks your interest, you'd open that app to read the headline article. Before with Windows 7 and earlier, you'd need to open your browser, navigate to your favorite news maker site, skim through all those articles to see what peaks your interest in reading further. What's sounds quicker to you?

    Some business do block the internet, but not all. Some business have their own specific LOB apps that do use the internet and those apps would be the first thing that is ran. That's perfectly fine and all, which is why Windows 10 is designed the way it is to bridge the gap of an older UI model and a newer one. This doesn't go to say that LOB apps can't stand to be redesigned for the newer way of things where, for example a retail management app. I've personally seen this myself on old Windows Mobile handsets where it used to be a simple icon that you'd need to tap on to open the app and navigate through an iffy UI to see what orders need to be prioritized and how many there are altogether. A live tile UI method would just simple show relevant information like that right there from the Start Screen without me having to do anything.
    Remember, I said I am odd. As far as my mail checking I do that in two ways, my email client or selecting a different profile to use in firefox. It really helps to have banking sites and web based email opened upped in a separate profile then your normal browsing profile. For example. I can open my banking in tab. If it needs a code or something. I can open up another tab and go to my web based email which is already logged in.

    For my normal browsing and forums. For example, When I get notification from my email client that threads have been responded to, I open up each website in a tab to read. The only issue I have for each website, I have to click to go back to the email client.

    Google Chrome browser can do stuff like live titles know like the app launcher. There is also something else called 8GadgetPack that can also do some of those things, I am using the weather gadget. If you click on more info on Windows live titles and it shows it in full screen, isn't that just internet explorer without the toolbar?

    You can also set your mouse to a single click to open up desktop, pinned taskbar and other folder icons with just one click.
    Sounds like you're using Windows 10!
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  10.    09 Feb 2015 #60
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Posts : 1,552
    W7 32 bit, Linux Mint Xfce 18 64 bit

    Quote Originally Posted by dperecky View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dperecky View Post
    It becomes a question of 'who is serving who'?

    To put it another way: Is MS there for the customer; or is the customer there for MS?

    Liking the idea of Win10. Although if MS still sold XP, Win7.... I would be happy to have more options.

    Their attitude is like- Well, you've got a car that runs fine, and would continue to run for the next 1,000,000 miles... but we are no longer making parts for it. So you need to throw your car away and buy our new model. Yes, a copy of Windows is cheaper than a car, but the principle is the same.

    True, MS might be a little smaller if they continued to offer XP/Win7, etc... But their customers would be happier.

    I need to poke a hole in the car metaphor.

    My car is 25 years, one month and eight days old. It should easily last me 350,000 miles if it's properly maintained before tranny or engine overhauls. Problem is, Mazda doesn't supply nor make many parts for it anymore. They do carry some parts, like the auto adjusting struts, but since not many people drive those cars anymore they aren't obligated to service the car especially since it's well out of warranty. Not only that, but the engine, transmission, emissions, suspension and every other technology has progressed in leaps and bounds for the better. Yes, it's a shame they don't continue to provide all the parts for it nor make certain parts anymore. If they did, there wouldn't be a sleek and damned gorgeous 2015 Mazda 6 that even though outweighs my old 626 like no other, it gets much better mileage than my car.

    Point being, technologies progress and make further innovations.

    If we kept the idea that automakers, or software makers, were obligated to support and maintain incredibly old technologies, progress and innovation suffers because why make a SkyActiv engine with better transmissions that gets impeccable mileage even though the car is basically a rolling studio apartment? Why keep holding onto 15 year old operating systems when newer systems are incredibly resilient in regards to malware and performance and efficiency?

    Even though Microsoft could make xp a top notch secure operating system, it would end up being Windows 10. It may seem like it's a totally new and foreign thing, but even if you dive down into the core of the OS, there are similarities in 10 and Xp. It's much like my old 626 and the new Mazda 6. Even though they're two different models and different years, there are some genuine similarities that feel familiar, yet different; mostly since the 6 came from the 626 lineage.
    Without a doubt, the new 2015 Mazda would be better. But you sound like you've grown attached to your old one.

    Same with Win10. Sure it will be better than XP. Let's hope so, anyways.

    That's not really the point though.

    For an example, Let's say your older car was in top-notch condition. You would then probably not be pleased to read that Mazda is strongly encouraging you to give up your older car... and this only because of the sake of 'innovation', essentially forcing you to switch before you're ready.... to 'help the company'. That would seem totally unreasonable, yes?

    IMO, the ideal situation would be that you can keep your old car, and also purchase the newer model IF you want to. More choices.
    You both forgot, there is aftermarket dealers for cars. Mostly refurbished or used parts that still work. Even if that doesn't work you can usually find it at a junk yard. There is an aftermarket for computers, especially for Windows 98se.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

 
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