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  1.    29 Jan 2016 #41
    Join Date : Jan 2014
    Oak Ridge TN, USA
    Posts : 24,523
    Windows 10 Pro x64

    Quote Originally Posted by sgage View Post
    You are still missing the point. MS is clearly not responsible for any manufacturer keeping its drivers updated. MS is most certainly responsible for telling users that their computer is compatible with Win10, nagging them until they upgrade it, and then breaking it.
    Isn't the manufacture responsible to update their drivers?? .. I would sure hope so. They all had plenty of time to get the job done and some did a great job and some failed. Regardless of how MS pushed 10 it's not their fault that some failed to do their job and update the drivers. That's what this is about.. poor driver support and this happens every time a new OS comes out. Remember this issues with drivers and Vista?? 8??

    I sure do. Driver support lags behind OS development and that's not MS's fault..
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  2.    29 Jan 2016 #42
    Join Date : Jan 2014
    Oak Ridge TN, USA
    Posts : 24,523
    Windows 10 Pro x64

    Quote Originally Posted by FrozenCursor View Post
    Microsoft does assure (via GWX) that a computer can be upgraded to Windows 10 only to break the computer after the upgrade, happens too often, just look around in this forum.

    Edit: Even after a successful upgrade to Windows 10, Microsoft sometimes break things with the forced updates. Also happens too often, again just look around in this forum.
    What you're seeing here is not reflective of all of the PC's that had zero issues with the upgrade. People come here with issues, as they should, but it doesn't reflect what really is going out in the real world upgrade wise.

    I don't know if many really come here just to post that things went fine and everything just works.
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  3.    29 Jan 2016 #43
    Join Date : Jan 2014
    Oak Ridge TN, USA
    Posts : 24,523
    Windows 10 Pro x64

    Well guys.. thanks for the interesting discussion.. I guess we can agree to disagree a bit on this subject. No hard feeling to anyone here.. life calls

    Have a great day and weekend!!

    Jeff..
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  4.    29 Jan 2016 #44
    Join Date : Apr 2015
    Posts : 169
    Windows 10

    Quote Originally Posted by BunnyJ View Post
    I don't know if many really come here just to post that things went fine and everything just works.
    Many fanboys do, trying to drown out legitimate issues
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  5.    29 Jan 2016 #45
    Join Date : Apr 2014
    Posts : 627
    Windows 10 Pro Insider Preview (14971)

    Quote Originally Posted by BunnyJ View Post
    Isn't the manufacture responsible to update their drivers?? .. I would sure hope so. They all had plenty of time to get the job done and some did a great job and some failed. Regardless of how MS pushed 10 it's not their fault that some failed to do their job and update the drivers. That's what this is about.. poor driver support and this happens every time a new OS comes out. Remember this issues with drivers and Vista?? 8??

    I sure do. Driver support lags behind OS development and that's not MS's fault..
    You are still missing the point. You are arguing against something I didn't say. One more try: Of course MS is not responsible for vendors not updating their drivers. The problem is GWX telling people that their computers are compatible with Win10 when they're not! That is Microsofts problem. And it is earned MS a lot of unneeded bad PR.
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  6.    29 Jan 2016 #46
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    N Calif
    Posts : 715
    W10 Pro (desktop), W10 (laptop), W10 (laptop), W10Pro (tablet)

    I believe, at this point in time, the Win 10 OS is pretty stable, it's the upgrade process that isn't.

    As long as I've been using Windows (since 3.0), the recommendation has always been to avoid OS upgrades and go with a clean install instead. I've always stuck to this and have had very few problems over the years when moving to a new version of Windows.

    I agree with the fact that MS can't possibly test all the various permutations possible in the PC world, if they tried they would never be able to ship the OS.

    What irks me is how aggressive MS is being with trying to push the upgrade to all Windows machines. I have machines running Win 7 and Win 8.1 that I NEVER want to upgrade to 10. MS should respect that and not attempt to force the upgrade. It's fine to offer the upgrade but if I decline then that should be the end of it.

    I have no problem with Win 10, I have it on several machines but, I have other machines that I don't want upgraded and need to be vigilant because MS has done things like download the Win 10 install files to my machines without my consent. That is crossing the line in my book.

    MS should back off and let the user decide whether they want to upgrade or not.
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  7.    29 Jan 2016 #47
    Join Date : Jan 2014
    Oak Ridge TN, USA
    Posts : 24,523
    Windows 10 Pro x64

    Quote Originally Posted by sgage View Post
    You are still missing the point. You are arguing against something I didn't say. One more try: Of course MS is not responsible for vendors not updating their drivers. The problem is GWX telling people that their computers are compatible with Win10 when they're not! That is Microsofts problem. And it is earned MS a lot of unneeded bad PR.
    What?? How is MS responsible for GWX failing in testing their drivers properly?? GWX said they would work and they failed.. they didn't work. So.. let's point the finger at MS?? The issue is that GWX didn't do their job properly and I can agree what they did didn't help out MS one bit.
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  8.    29 Jan 2016 #48
    Join Date : Jan 2014
    Oak Ridge TN, USA
    Posts : 24,523
    Windows 10 Pro x64

    Quote Originally Posted by strollin View Post
    I believe, at this point in time, the Win 10 OS is pretty stable, it's the upgrade process that isn't.

    As long as I've been using Windows (since 3.0), the recommendation has always been to avoid OS upgrades and go with a clean install instead. I've always stuck to this and have had very few problems over the years when moving to a new version of Windows.

    I agree with the fact that MS can't possibly test all the various permutations possible in the PC world, if they tried they would never be able to ship the OS.

    What irks me is how aggressive MS is being with trying to push the upgrade to all Windows machines. I have machines running Win 7 and Win 8.1 that I NEVER want to upgrade to 10. MS should respect that and not attempt to force the upgrade. It's fine to offer the upgrade but if I decline then that should be the end of it.

    I have no problem with Win 10, I have it on several machines but, I have other machines that I don't want upgraded and need to be vigilant because MS has done things like download the Win 10 install files to my machines without my consent. That is crossing the line in my book.

    MS should back off and let the user decide whether they want to upgrade or not.
    I agree with the point that MS has been a bit aggressive with the upgrade offer. They should have had a way to allow users to just opt out and not get the offer again after the first time they got it. That way everyone might have been happy with the process.
    Last edited by BunnyJ; 29 Jan 2016 at 08:27. Reason: got not get dummy
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  9.    29 Jan 2016 #49
    Join Date : Apr 2015
    Posts : 169
    Windows 10

    Quote Originally Posted by BunnyJ View Post
    What?? How is MS responsible for GWX failing
    Microsoft is responsible for GWX failing, Microsoft uses GWX to guarantee that the upgrade will work on that particular computer.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  10.    29 Jan 2016 #50
    Join Date : Sep 2014
    Posts : 236
    7, 10TP

    Quote Originally Posted by BunnyJ View Post

    I would love to know what you do to tinker an OS. For me I use it just as it comes right out to the box. Like you I want an OS that just works and the best way for me to achieve that is not to tinker the OS. An OS is just a tool to me and the look is a secondary issue/thought. I use it so I can code(COBOL, Python and Java).. work on my Website and do some budget work. I can never really see myself spending any time tinkering an OS other than applying a few addition to the context menu and changing the color theme.. I have a great one done by @Cliff S.

    For me... just use the OS as it is and don't worry about customizing it. Get work done with it and just enjoy the fact that it's a great OS out of the box.
    For me the PC is a tool as well. However, my tasks are somewhat different. As a couple of examples, sometimes I'm doing calculations taking 100% CPU resources and sometimes I make presentations with a laptop. In both cases it's very important that the OS does not do anything else, but the task I set it to do. That means no updating, maintenance, scans, etc.

    Unfortunately I see very often that people come onstage to give their talk only to see the message from Windows that a reboot is necessary or an update is important. Somehow, Windows does not understand that if the user is making a presentation, no extra information is needed onscreen right at that moment.

    One other thing Windows completely fails at is the concept of the PC being idle. If I set the machine up for a heavy calculation and leave it to work for a couple of days, it's not idle, it's calculating. However, Windows defines "idle" as "no user interaction", meaning no input from the keyboard or mouse. This is completely ridiculous. If I use the machine for computation, I very often do not touch it until the calculation is finished, which may take days. However by default Windows will interfere with all kinds of automated tasks and ever will go to sleep if I do not move the mouse every half hour or so.

    So from this you can guess what "tinkering" I'm doing. It has nothing to do with how the GUI looks like. What I do with the OS is to very carefully examine all automated tasks that may run at random time points and either reschedule them or turn off the automation (e.g. I do not need the OS to do any automated defragmentation while the machine is calculating, so I turn off automated defrag task, etc.). Similarly, automatic Windows updates are turned off - I check for updates manually. Windows Defender is off - I use another security suite (ESET). And so on, so forth. All in all, I need to go through Tasks, Group Policy, Services, Updates, and so on. It takes a while to set it all up. Windows Updates that introduce extra telemetry do not help, but since I do not install any updates automatically and always check what each updates does before installing, I manage to avoid all that stuff (e.g., I never had GWX installed and so it does not bother me, no Windows 10 files downloading automatically, etc.)
      My ComputerSystem Spec

 
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