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  1.    12 Jan 2016 #31
    Join Date : Jan 2014
    Oak Ridge TN, USA
    Posts : 24,523
    Windows 10 Pro x64

    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    They wouldn't be collecting, storing and analysing user data, if the cost of doing so, exceeded the money they make by doing it.
    It's unlikely that every bit of data that they would collect would generate any revenue. And to store all the possible data would be a huge expense.

    And what would/could the really benefit from doing this in the first place?
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  2.    12 Jan 2016 #32
    Join Date : May 2015
    Posts : 139
    Tried 10 Returned to 8.1

    Quote Originally Posted by BunnyJ View Post
    It's unlikely that every bit of data that they would collect would generate any revenue. And to store all the possible data would be a huge expense.

    And what would/could the really benefit from doing this in the first place?
    Don't get the wrong idea here because I am totally against all the data MS collects and I believe MS collects and stores much more than the skeptics believe and I believe MS can track whatever they save back to an individual machine ID. I am also realistic in that there is not much that can be done about it until legislation is enacted to regulate such data mining and I doubt that will happen in my lifetime if ever. But back to the quote.

    And to store all the possible data would be a huge expense.

    I totally disagree here: With todays storage technology coupled with compression I don't believe cost of storage is an issue whatsoever,

    It's unlikely that every bit of data that they would collect would generate any revenue.

    I totally agree with this.

    I think a lot of the data MS collects is in fact related to performance and reliability but much of what they collect is related to the pursuit of Artificial Intelligence (AI). Just Google Artificial Intelligence and check out some of the MS info on this topic. It is all really fascinating and MS is putting a lot of resources in this area and it requires tons of data that may be considered personal in nature. Apparently MS is playing catch-up to Google and Apple is a big player in this R&D as well. So I don't believe MS is all bad but I still don't like the expansion of data collection with W-10 and more importantly, the loss of control over updates so I will stay with 8.1 for a long time to come and my system is rock solid and does everything I will ever need it to do and more.
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  3.    12 Jan 2016 #33
    Join Date : Jun 2014
    Posts : 5,544
    Windows 10 Pro

    What I don't like about it is that we don't have enough control of what info is being sent and only MS's word of what is being collected. Am I going to stop using Win 10? No! Do I think MS is going to misuse this info? No! With only MS's word of what's being collected how do we know for certain that if they got hacked there wouldn't be any personal data about us that the hackers could use to their advantage?
    Last edited by Winuser; 13 Jan 2016 at 08:15.
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  4.    14 Jan 2016 #34
    Join Date : Aug 2014
    Australia, Adelaide
    Posts : 1,566
    W7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), LM 18.2 MATE (64 bit), W10 Home (64 bit)

    Many Factors


    Quote Originally Posted by gator2013 View Post
    Don't get the wrong idea here ...
    Good luck with that.

    Quote Originally Posted by gator2013 View Post
    ... because I am totally against all the data MS collects and I believe MS collects and stores much more than the skeptics believe and I believe MS can track whatever they save back to an individual machine ID. I am also realistic in that there is not much that can be done about it until legislation is enacted to regulate such data mining and I doubt that will happen in my lifetime if ever.
    Agreed.

    Without legislation and enforcement, abuses can't be deterred.
    Even this can't totally prevent abuses, but there may be a chance of receiving some compensation.

    Quote Originally Posted by gator2013 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by BunnyJ View Post
    And to store all the possible data would be a huge expense.
    I totally disagree here: With todays storage technology coupled with compression I don't believe cost of storage is an issue whatsoever,
    Agreed.
    Caveat:
    What is meant by the term "store all the possible data"?

    Here in Australia, I can buy a 1TB HDD for ~$60 (I guess they're probably ~$30 in the US).
    A 1TB HDD could hold 1 million individual (1MB) records.
    MS would only need ~2000 1TB HDDs to hold the info of 2 billion users (initial snapshot).
    Since MS could probably get a better HDD deal than the average consumer, it could cost them less than $60K in the US.

    Data that doesn't require unpredictable fast access can even be stored on tape.
    http://www.techrepublic.com/article/...r-and-smarter/

    To get an idea of the amount of info, lets assume that the data package's initial snapshot (telemetry and all other data, if any) totals up to 1MB (for example in docx file format).

    I'll use a docx file that I have on my PC as an example ("Rulebook.docx", 51 pages, ~30,000 words, ~100KB size).
    Those numbers would suggest that a 1MB docx file could contain ~500 pages and ~300,000 words.
    Note:
    A custom data structure could also significantly increase the mount of useful info in a 1MB file.
    Compressing the "Rulebook.docx" file using 7-Zip (i.e. "Rulebook.7z") only reduced the size a few percent.

    As gator2013 suggests, subsequent snapshots could be significantly smaller if some form of differential compression is used.

    I suspect that the other data centre overheads (e.g. consumables, plant, network capacity, taxes, wages, etc.) are much larger.

    Obviously other factors can affect the storage requirements:

    • Data sampling frequency
    • Data lifespan
    • Data compression/de-duplication (at the data centre)


    Quote Originally Posted by gator2013 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by BunnyJ View Post
    It's unlikely that every bit of data that they would collect would generate any revenue.
    I totally agree with this.
    Agreed.

    In the short term:
    • Maintenance, repair and supervision cost money, but they don't generate extra income and therefore profits.
    • They can save you money and the savings are added to the profit (e.g. defusing potential issues before they cause trouble "in the wild").

    In the long term:
    • They can increase your income and therefore profits, if they increase the reputation of the company.
    • Many people prefer to buy from companies that sell good products and provide good customer service, therefore advertising and especially "word of mouth" can lead to increased income.
    Last edited by lehnerus2000; 14 Jan 2016 at 22:03. Reason: Title, Link Added
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  5.    15 Jan 2016 #35
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    Nothern Ohio
    Posts : 580
    Windows 7/64 Professional

    I look at things a little simpler.

    If Microsoft want to gather data, for what ever their stated reason is; just ask the user/operator/owner of the computer system.
    Then the user can choose yes or no.
    I told you it was simple.

    Some say that companies like Google have been doing data gathering for years. I believe that to be true.
    Just because I have a neighbor that is a drug dealer and another neighbor that is a child molester doesn't mean I should become either.
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  6.    16 Jan 2016 #36
    Join Date : Sep 2014
    Posts : 120
    Windows 8

    I wanted to add a free Wifi analyser from the Apps Store. I logged in but then to get the app they wanted to know by date of birth. Clearly I could provide false info, but I decided that the Store was best avoided,
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  7.    19 Jan 2016 #37
    Join Date : Sep 2014
    Posts : 236
    7, 10TP

    Quote Originally Posted by machare View Post
    I wanted to add a free Wifi analyser from the Apps Store. I logged in but then to get the app they wanted to know by date of birth. Clearly I could provide false info, but I decided that the Store was best avoided,
    Honestly, why would anyone provide truthful information to some website/company that requires it in order to sell you something for a few (or even zero) bucks?

    Sometimes I need to purchase a train ticket in a foreign country. Sometimes they require me to give my name for authentication on the train, fine. But why do they need anything else from me? I think they don't and I just feed them nonsense. I still get my ticket all right. What else do I care about? Why do they need to know my real address or date of birth or my mothers name?

    There are plenty of such situations. Apple requires me to keep a credit card number on file in order to download free apps. So, I give them a virtual number. In fact, I don't see why someone would give a real, non virtual credit card number over the internet. Actually in this respect Google is better - they do not require payment info unless you actually need to buy something. So, I don't keep any payment info with Google Play.

    See, the problem is not that you get advertising. You get it anyway, you see it everywhere, it's not a big deal. The flashy annoying ads on the computer screen are easily eradicated (I hope I am not stepping over the forum rules here). But the targeted advertising they are collecting all that data for is very often totally stupid.

    I bought a vacuum cleaner last year on Amazon. Since then I am getting numerous emails from them suggesting I buy more vacuum cleaners. But this is stupid - how many vacuum cleaners does one buy? If they would think about it, they would send me ads for other household appliances, the ones that I did not buy from them, thinking that perhaps I need a new fridge as well. But having just bought a vacuum cleaner, I am quite certain I won't buy another for years.

    Similarly, I signed a contract with a telecom company a couple of years ago. Very often I get calls from the same company advertising the same service but for more money. How smart is that?

    Finally, there is a very simple way to make sure Microsoft does not collect your personal information - you don't give it your personal information. Are they capable of reading all the pdf files on your computers and figuring out your actual name out of numerous names that can be found in those files? I think not. Then they have no way of getting your name unless you give it to them yourself.
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  8.    19 Jan 2016 #38
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Posts : 1,555
    W7 32 bit, Linux Mint Xfce 18 64 bit

    Apple requires me to keep a credit card number on file in order to download free apps. So, I give them a virtual number. In fact, I don't see why someone would give a real, non virtual credit card number over the internet.
    No, they don't.

    3 Ways to Create an iTunes Account Without a Credit Card

    Not all financial institutions provide virtual credit card numbers.
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  9.    19 Jan 2016 #39
    Join Date : Apr 2015
    Posts : 95
    win 10 pro

    Interesting but it is all demographics and analytic.
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  10.    20 Jan 2016 #40
    Join Date : Sep 2014
    Posts : 236
    7, 10TP

    Quote Originally Posted by groze View Post
    No, they don't.

    3 Ways to Create an iTunes Account Without a Credit Card

    Not all financial institutions provide virtual credit card numbers.
    I just gave an example that popped into my head. Perhaps they changed something since I last looked into it few years ago. The point remains - most if not all websites and internet companies prefer to ask you for all kind of information that is largely irrelevant to their declared business purposes. I don't believe that I should participate in that information gathering and very often give clearly ridiculous information in such cases. In particular, I never enter my name when prompted by a newly installed program on my PC: they work equally well for any combination of keys pressed at that point. Moreover, I keep several email addresses (they are free and not hard to create) specifically for registering with all kinds of websites. Hotels and travel companies go to one email address, ebay to another, forums to yet another. None of them have my real name in the associated Google accounts. I have a Microsoft account since it was required to sign up for the Insider program, but I'm no longer active in it - I got rather disappointed with Win10 and the way it's developing. I saw no reason to give my real name there as well. After all, they claim to aggregate and anonymize all information they are collecting. So why would they need my name?
    Last edited by unifex; 20 Jan 2016 at 04:40.
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