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  1.    27 Dec 2014 #51
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    Posts : 1,962
    Windows 7

    Only "preposterous" to someone conceited enough to believe his is the only opinion worth consideration.
    I can subscribe to that. I am 50% blind and a full page layout beats any itty bitty start menu for me. I can hardly read these links in the new start and since there seems to be no way to make it bigger (I am already running on 150% DPI), it is useless for me. Fortunately I can toggle the start page.
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  2.    27 Dec 2014 #52
    Join Date : Jan 2014
    Posts : 246

    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post

    Sorry, Lady Fitzgerald, but I don’t follow the logic. One needs to know the name of the app to find it in an alphabetized menu...
    If (more like when) I can't remember the name of the program, scanning a vertical list of text, hoping the name will jump out at me (which usually works for me), is much easier and faster than continuously horizontally scrolling a bunch of tiles with a name in each one (and some don't even have names).
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  3.    27 Dec 2014 #53
    Join Date : Nov 2013
    Land of 10,000 lakes
    Posts : 10,382
    W10 Pro, W10 Home

    [QUOTE=Rickkins;175831]
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post
    Scanning an alphabetical vertical list is one heck of a lot easier and faster than scrolling horizontally through over a hundred tiles.
    Sorry mate, but I personally don't agree with you. With my eyesight the way it is, reading the Start Menu list to find a program/App is definitely harder than using the Apps Screen. Having both the Start Menu or Start Screen as options available in the final W10 product would be nice.
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  4.    27 Dec 2014 #54
    Join Date : Jan 2014
    Posts : 246

    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dencal View Post
    ...Hopefully both options will be included in the final W10 release to the public which should then satisfy everyone.
    And there is the key to it all: give people choices.
    Yes and 10 seems to be accomplishing it.
    That I agree with. I'm not saying the start screen and tiles don't have a use—they definitely do—but they aren't for everyone, same as start menus are not for everyone.
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  5.    27 Dec 2014 #55
    Join Date : Jan 2014
    Posts : 246

    [QUOTE=LittleJay;175897]
    Quote Originally Posted by Rickkins View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post
    Scanning an alphabetical vertical list is one heck of a lot easier and faster than scrolling horizontally through over a hundred tiles.
    Sorry mate, but I personally don't agree with you. With my eyesight the way it is, reading the Start Menu list to find a program/App is definitely harder than using the Apps Screen. Having both the Start Menu or Start Screen as options available in the final W10 product would be nice.
    You should see th glasses I wear; six lenses (trifocals). All seriousness aside, I hear you. I have a pair of readers I use just for working on the computer at home.
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  6.    27 Dec 2014 #56
    Join Date : Nov 2013
    Land of 10,000 lakes
    Posts : 10,382
    W10 Pro, W10 Home

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post
    You should see th glasses I wear; six lenses (trifocals). All seriousness aside, I hear you. I have a pair of readers I use just for working on the computer at home.
    I have a form of glaucoma and am just thankful that I can still see reasonably well.
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  7.    27 Dec 2014 #57
    Join Date : Sep 2014
    Posts : 98
    Windows 10 Pro 64-bit

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post

    If you had the Calculator pinned to the Start Menu, it would take fewer clicks (two). If you pinned it to the task bar, that would take still fewer clicks (one). Or you could press the Windows key and start typing Calculator.

    I have over a hundred programs installed on my desktop machine and I use every one of them although most are rather infrequently. Since there is no way I'm going to remember the names of all of them, having a menu is essential for me. Scanning an alphabetical vertical list is one heck of a lot easier and faster than scrolling horizontally through over a hundred tiles.
    I saw one or two other people with same argument, so this to you and them. Having a program pinned to the startmenu or taskbar requires having already pinned it there. That assumes that it is a program used often enough to make you want to pin it. Even on high resolution screens, both have limited real estate, and I think in your case especially, it would be non-sense to pin every single installed program and those built in to the task bar. If anything, I'd think that would be a waste of time. Its a moot point anyways since you can do it 8 too. And typing isn't always a good option either. As you stated, if you have a lot of software installed, you can't always remember the name of everything. I would also say typing out the name of a program requires much more effort than clicking something. Furthermore, your statement about having to scroll through tiles just proves how ignorant you are about how the start screen actual works. At least try it instead of making up "facts". If you scroll down, or click the bottom of the screen on a desktop, you get a screen with all your programs listed. No tiles, just a list. You have a multitude of options on how the list is arranged. The basic choices are by name, by date installed, by category, and by most used. With the start menu, you don't really have any easy choices. You can customize what folders programs are in, but that's time consuming. If you don't like live tiles, there is an option to go to this list when hitting the start button/windows key by default, skipping the screen with tiles entirely.

    EDIT: Also, I would say having a list that takes up the entire screen, in vertical columns, makes it a lot easier to find a program than scrolling through a one column list.
    Last edited by Petey7; 27 Dec 2014 at 21:07. Reason: I hate you autocorrect
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  8.    27 Dec 2014 #58
    Join Date : Aug 2014
    Australia, Adelaide
    Posts : 1,569
    W7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), LM 18.2 MATE (64 bit), W10 Home (64 bit)

    Quote Originally Posted by Petey7 View Post
    Furthermore, your statement about having to scroll through tiles just proves how ignorant you are about how the start screen actual works. At least try it instead of making up "facts". If you scroll down, or click the bottom of the screen on a desktop, you get a screen with all your programs listed. No tiles, just a list. You have a multitude of options on how the list is arranged. The basic choices are by name, by date installed, by category, and by most used. With the start menu, you don't really have any easy choices. You can customize what folders programs are in, but that's time consuming. If you don't like live tiles, there is an option to go to this list when hitting the start button/windows key by default, skipping the screen with tiles entirely.
    The "All Apps" screen is different from the Start Screen.

    The "All Apps" screen is like "All Programs" in the Start Menu.
    The Start Screen is like the left column of the Start Menu.

    Can the "All Apps" screen actually be customised though?
    I couldn't change anything on it, when I was playing with the W8.1 Enterprise preview.
    Specifically, I couldn't create columns like on the Start Screen.
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  9.    27 Dec 2014 #59
    Join Date : Jan 2014
    Posts : 246

    Quote Originally Posted by Petey7 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post

    If you had the Calculator pinned to the Start Menu, it would take fewer clicks (two). If you pinned it to the task bar, that would take still fewer clicks (one). Or you could press the Windows key and start typing Calculator.

    I have over a hundred programs installed on my desktop machine and I use every one of them although most are rather infrequently. Since there is no way I'm going to remember the names of all of them, having a menu is essential for me. Scanning an alphabetical vertical list is one heck of a lot easier and faster than scrolling horizontally through over a hundred tiles.
    I saw one or two other people with same argument, so this to you and them. Having a program pinned to the startmenu or taskbar requires having already pinned it there. That assumes that it is a program used often enough to make you want to pin it. Even on high resolution screens, both have limited real estate, and I think in your case especially, it would be non-sense to pin every single installed program and those built in to the task bar. If anything, I'd think that would be a waste of time. Its a moot point anyways since you can do it 8 too. And typing isn't always a good option either. As you stated, if you have a lot of software installed, you can't always remember the name of everything. I would also say typing out the name of a program requires much more effort than clicking something. Furthermore, your statement about having to scroll through tiles just proves how ignorant you are about how the start screen actual works. At least try it instead of making up "facts". If you scroll down, or click the bottom of the screen on a desktop, you get a screen with all your programs listed. No tiles, just a list. You have a multitude of options on how the list is arranged. The basic choices are by name, by date installed, by category, and by most used. With the start menu, you don't really have any easy choices. You can customize what folders programs are in, but that's time consuming. If you don't like live tiles, there is an option to go to this list when hitting the start button/windows key by default, skipping the screen with tiles entirely.

    EDIT: Also, I would say having a list that takes up the entire screen, in vertical columns, makes it a lot easier to find a program than scrolling through a one column list.
    I never said anything about putting all programs on the task bar or the start menu (in this case, I was referring to just one program). That would indeed be rather pointless. Only the most frequently used programs need to be pinned anywhere. In win 7, I have my most frequently used programs pinned to the task bar or in the notification area. My next most frequently used programs are pinned to the start menu. The rest I can still find quickly in All Programs in the start menu. In the example of Calculator, someone was complaining about how many mouse clicks it took to get to it using the start menu. I was merely pointing out how the number of mouse clicks can be reduced. Also, some people prefer using them mouse; others prefer navigating by keyboard. That is why I presented the keyboard alternative.

    I'm not making up anything. I was referring to Win 8's start screen, which I have tried and hated it for the week I had to use it, because that was what others were referring to. I've already acknowledged that Win 10 is an improvement. I've also stipulated that both start screens and start menus have their uses; which one one uses depends on the hardware one is using, what one's workflow is, and a person's personal preferrence. The fact that Win 10 has both is what makes it a major improvement over its predecessors (and I have already stated that as well).

    As far as having an entire list in multiple columns taking up the entire screen goes, again, it depends on the person using it. I can read only one item at a time. Some people can read entire blocks of data at a glance. I find scrolling down a single column no more difficult than perusing multiple columns. Others may not. Also, how one scrolls is a factor. If one use the scroll wheel, depending on how fast the scroll speed is set, that can take longer than using the scroll bar, depending on how one uses the scroll bar. Grabbing and dragging on the scroll bar is much, much faster than just using the arrows on the top and bottom of the scroll bar.
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  10.    27 Dec 2014 #60
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    Posts : 1,962
    Windows 7

    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Petey7 View Post
    Furthermore, your statement about having to scroll through tiles just proves how ignorant you are about how the start screen actual works. At least try it instead of making up "facts". If you scroll down, or click the bottom of the screen on a desktop, you get a screen with all your programs listed. No tiles, just a list. You have a multitude of options on how the list is arranged. The basic choices are by name, by date installed, by category, and by most used. With the start menu, you don't really have any easy choices. You can customize what folders programs are in, but that's time consuming. If you don't like live tiles, there is an option to go to this list when hitting the start button/windows key by default, skipping the screen with tiles entirely.
    The "All Apps" screen is different from the Start Screen.

    The "All Apps" screen is like "All Programs" in the Start Menu.
    The Start Screen is like the left column of the Start Menu.

    Can the "All Apps" screen actually be customised though?
    I couldn't change anything on it, when I was playing with the W8.1 Enterprise preview.
    Specifically, I couldn't create columns like on the Start Screen.
    There seems to be a way to customize the Apps. I have not yet looked at the details but post 65 and following on page 7 in this thread looks promising.
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