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  1.    19 Dec 2014 #31
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    Posts : 25,809
    64-bit Windows 10 Pro build 17046
    Thread Starter

    Quote Originally Posted by ThrashZone View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ThrashZone View Post
    The majority of testers are using vm's so it's a little different animal
    Where, exactly did you make up that statistic from?

    In fact, according to Microsoft, only 36% of users are using a VM.

    Checking in on the Windows Insider Program
    Why would you say I made that up for ?
    I can't open the News story posted by @Brink but it's now on page 8 in this section
    Windows 10: 41% of testers installed the build on their...
    @ThrashZone

    The link below for it should work now. The % sign originally in the title broke it. Once removed, it opens now.

    Windows 10: 41 percent of testers installed build 9860
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  2.    19 Dec 2014 #32
    Join Date : Nov 2013
    Houston
    Posts : 2,446
    3-Win-7Prox64 2-Win10Prox64

    Ha okay I thought I was having a browser moment thanks for fixing the news story

    Well I didn't make it up I was just wrong on the statement but it does look like vm's are up about 10% from last go around,
    Just not near as many on desktops and laptops
    Cheers.
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  3.    20 Dec 2014 #33
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Posts : 19
    Windows 10 build 9879

    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wptski View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    Any chance that the next "upgrade" will be available on an ISO (instead of requiring the horrible in-place update garbage)?

    Microsoft should dump the unreliable in-place update paradigm entirely.
    The way they are forcing people to use it reminds me of their stubborn refusal to fix Metro's problems (during W8 testing and release).
    You must enjoy installing software or have next to nothing installed? I for one didn't like installing software over and over again because of other problems I had.
    Not really.
    I just spent 5 days reorganising my PC setup (It should have taken a few hours).

    Also, I only have a few programs installed in W10 TP, because I expect that I will have to do clean installs anyway every few weeks.

    However if the in-place upgrade fails, you probably won't be able to use any software, so you'll have to reinstall the lot anyway.
    YeahBut. If the in-place upgrade works it's a ton less work. And the odds are that it will work.

    Anecdotally, a clean OS with all of the same programs installed, seems to run better.
    Of course, but so what? That's true of every version of every operating system that has ever been built. And it's sure not a useful testing platform. To give this thing, or any other OS, a proper test you have to clutter it up with a whole mess of junk, preferably without ever cleaning up the registry or uninstalling anything. The more crap you can stick on your test system the more realistic and useful the test will be.

    ...ken...
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  4.    20 Dec 2014 #34
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Arnold, MD
    Posts : 29,755
    Triple boot - Win 10 Pro, Win 10 Pro Insider (2) - (and a sprinkling of VMs)

    Curious,,, what does the "1501" mean??

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  5.    20 Dec 2014 #35
    Join Date : Aug 2014
    Australia, Adelaide
    Posts : 1,571
    W7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), LM 18.2 MATE (64 bit), W10 Home (64 bit)

    Garbage Code vs Install Glitch?


    Quote Originally Posted by KenG View Post
    Of course, but so what? That's true of every version of every operating system that has ever been built. And it's sure not a useful testing platform. To give this thing, or any other OS, a proper test you have to clutter it up with a whole mess of junk, preferably without ever cleaning up the registry or uninstalling anything. The more crap you can stick on your test system the more realistic and useful the test will be.
    So how do you determine if a new OS preview has garbage code, or if the in-place upgrade glitched (and there is actually nothing wrong with the OS code)?

    Personally I'm only interested in the "main" programs that I use on a daily basis.
    If some software that I never install doesn't work, why should I care?

    These days anyone can run a VM (if required) for old software.

    Anecdotally (from help forum posts) the less code installed on a system, the better it runs.

    I suspect my PC would be considered to be "a piece of junk" by a lot of people on these forums.
    Yet, compared to an original IBM PC, my PC has:
    • ~1000x faster CPU
    • ~8000x more RAM
    • ~6500000x more storage

    Despite those stats, I doubt that I could run a 1000 copies of DOS (I'd be surprised if I could run 100 copies).

    People often claim that there is no such thing as "Registry Clag" and yet a fresh install almost always seems to run better than an install that is a few years old.
    If it doesn't run better, the problem is usually caused by an unsuccessful reinstall (i.e. some glitch occurred during the install).
    The cure is a successful clean reinstall.
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  6.    20 Dec 2014 #36
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Posts : 19
    Windows 10 build 9879

    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KenG View Post
    Of course, but so what? That's true of every version of every operating system that has ever been built. And it's sure not a useful testing platform. To give this thing, or any other OS, a proper test you have to clutter it up with a whole mess of junk, preferably without ever cleaning up the registry or uninstalling anything. The more crap you can stick on your test system the more realistic and useful the test will be.
    So how do you determine if a new OS preview has garbage code, or if the in-place upgrade glitched (and there is actually nothing wrong with the OS code)?

    Personally I'm only interested in the "main" programs that I use on a daily basis.
    If some software that I never install doesn't work, why should I care?

    These days anyone can run a VM (if required) for old software.

    Anecdotally (from help forum posts) the less code installed on a system, the better it runs.

    I suspect my PC would be considered to be "a piece of junk" by a lot of people on these forums.
    Yet, compared to an original IBM PC, my PC has:
    • ~1000x faster CPU
    • ~8000x more RAM
    • ~6500000x more storage

    Despite those stats, I doubt that I could run a 1000 copies of DOS (I'd be surprised if I could run 100 copies).

    People often claim that there is no such thing as "Registry Clag" and yet a fresh install almost always seems to run better than an install that is a few years old.
    If it doesn't run better, the problem is usually caused by an unsuccessful reinstall (i.e. some glitch occurred during the install).
    The cure is a successful clean reinstall.
    Yikes, how do I respond to that?! I guess the main point is that alpha and beta testing is not about *you* and what *you* like/want/prefer. It's about beating on the target product, preferably in a way that is as close to whatever passes for normal use as you can make it. The ideal situation would include hammering on it in as rude and ignorant a fashion as an "average" user might.

    If you want stability, order, simplicity, reliability, and "clean code" in your life you should not sign up for testing stuff; especially not an operating system.

    Re: "registry clag", anyone who doubts: a) doesn't understand a thing about the registry and how Windows and applications use and abuse it, and b) have never run a registry cleaner that shows them a list of all the useless crud that accumulates in there. The first time I ran a registry cleaner it was on a system that had never been cleaned in the four years since the original clean OS install. There were 24,000 (yep, 24 followed by three zeros) useless entries. Needless to say after that junk was stripped from the registry, thus reducing it's size and, therefore, the time to read, write, and find stuff in it, things were much snappier.

    ...ken...
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  7.    20 Dec 2014 #37
    Join Date : Aug 2014
    Australia, Adelaide
    Posts : 1,571
    W7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), LM 18.2 MATE (64 bit), W10 Home (64 bit)

    Free vs Paid


    Quote Originally Posted by KenG View Post
    Yikes, how do I respond to that?! I guess the main point is that alpha and beta testing is not about *you* and what *you* like/want/prefer.
    That is the job of a paid beta tester.
    I'm not a paid beta tester for MS.

    I'm testing it for me.

    If MS want to give me money and supply additional software for testing (e.g. Office 2013, VS 2013, Adobe CC, etc.) they know where to find me and I'll perform whatever testing they want.

    Quote Originally Posted by KenG View Post
    It's about beating on the target product, preferably in a way that is as close to whatever passes for normal use as you can make it. The ideal situation would include hammering on it in as rude and ignorant a fashion as an "average" user might.
    Personally, I install as few programs as I can "get away with" on my real system; that is my "normal use".

    Quote Originally Posted by KenG View Post
    If you want stability, order, simplicity, reliability, and "clean code" in your life you should not sign up for testing stuff; especially not an operating system.
    They receive free feedback from me running their test OS (and any comments I post on the Insider forum).
    As far as I know, we unpaid testers aren't going to receive any special considerations from MS for our input.

    During the W8 testing, MS totally ignored all of the feedback that was offered anyway.

    After the W8 debacle, I'm interested to see if this OS can do what I want, without annoying me.
    Once I'm satisfied that W10 is actually usable, I might start installing obscure programs.
    Currently I have only installed my most heavily used programs:
    • Internet browser (PM25)
    • MPC-HC media player
    • Notepad++
    • CCleaner
    • Glary Utilities


    MS probably doesn't even really care about 3rd party software, as it isn't their problem if it doesn't work.
    They probably would be worried if nothing worked (and if that was the case, they'd be told that "in no uncertain terms").

    Since I've just spent the last two months working on TAFE assignments and the last week rebuilding my setup, I haven't had time to do in-depth testing anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by KenG View Post
    Re: "registry clag", anyone who doubts: a) doesn't understand a thing about the registry and how Windows and applications use and abuse it, and b) have never run a registry cleaner that shows them a list of all the useless crud that accumulates in there. The first time I ran a registry cleaner it was on a system that had never been cleaned in the four years since the original clean OS install. There were 24,000 (yep, 24 followed by three zeros) useless entries. Needless to say after that junk was stripped from the registry, thus reducing it's size and, therefore, the time to read, write, and find stuff in it, things were much snappier.
    The first time I ran CCleaner on XP (many years ago) it found hundreds of dud Registry entries and several GBs of Internet Cache garbage.
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  8.    21 Dec 2014 #38

    Quote Originally Posted by f14tomcat View Post
    Curious,,, what does the "1501" mean??

    Click image for larger version. 

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    '
    It's the release date of Consumer Preview next year.
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  9.    21 Dec 2014 #39
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Posts : 941
    Windows 8.1, Win10Pro

    It's the release date of Consumer Preview next year.
    Sorry I don't have the link handy, but I recently read that there is not going to be any Consumer Preview this time, but instead, a January Tech Preview -- followed by a February Tech Preview, March TP, ... etc.

    I find this disappointing because if there was going to be a Consumer Preview, that would imply that MS would go all-out to make the January version not only as bug-free as they could make it, but to also contain ALL the features they plan on having for Consumers (as opposed to Enterprises).

    But, if it's just another in a line of monthly TP's, that implies all it will have is the stuff that they have ready to release by the time they do the Build.
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  10.    21 Dec 2014 #40
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Posts : 1,555
    W7 32 bit, Linux Mint Xfce 18 64 bit

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Phelps View Post
    It's the release date of Consumer Preview next year.
    Sorry I don't have the link handy, but I recently read that there is not going to be any Consumer Preview this time, but instead, a January Tech Preview -- followed by a February Tech Preview, March TP, ... etc.

    I find this disappointing because if there was going to be a Consumer Preview, that would imply that MS would go all-out to make the January version not only as bug-free as they could make it, but to also contain ALL the features they plan on having for Consumers (as opposed to Enterprises).

    But, if it's just another in a line of monthly TP's, that implies all it will have is the stuff that they have ready to release by the time they do the Build.
    Mark Phelps,


    I read the opposite. These are somewhat current.

    Microsoft: Consumers should wait for Windows 10 Consumer Preview out early 2015 - Pocket-lint

    Here are two links for Jan 2015

    Microsoft Schedules Windows 10 Consumer Preview Event For January : T-Lounge : Tech Times


    Windows 10 release date, news and features | PC Pro
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