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  1.    19 Dec 2014 #21
    Join Date : Sep 2014
    Nashville, TN
    Posts : 3,143
    Windows 10 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    Any chance that the next "upgrade" will be available on an ISO (instead of requiring the horrible in-place update garbage)?

    Microsoft should dump the unreliable in-place update paradigm entirely.
    The way they are forcing people to use it reminds me of their stubborn refusal to fix Metro's problems (during W8 testing and release).
    You're forgetting that the only way they can fix the problems with this process is by actually getting beta testers to use it...
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  2.    19 Dec 2014 #22
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Posts : 1,422
    win 10 Insider

    Excellent point!!
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  3.    19 Dec 2014 #23
    Join Date : Nov 2013
    Idaho USA
    Posts : 4,826
    OS X, Win 10

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    Any chance that the next "upgrade" will be available on an ISO (instead of requiring the horrible in-place update garbage)?

    Microsoft should dump the unreliable in-place update paradigm entirely.
    The way they are forcing people to use it reminds me of their stubborn refusal to fix Metro's problems (during W8 testing and release).
    You're forgetting that the only way they can fix the problems with this process is by actually getting beta testers to use it...
    Good point. . .never been able to figure out the big deal behind the need for a clean install. . .probably just me. . .
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  4.    19 Dec 2014 #24
    Join Date : Nov 2013
    Houston
    Posts : 1,683
    3-Win-7Prox64 1-Win-10Prox64

    The majority of testers are using vm's so it's a little different animal
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  5.    19 Dec 2014 #25
    Join Date : Sep 2014
    Nashville, TN
    Posts : 3,143
    Windows 10 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by ThrashZone View Post
    The majority of testers are using vm's so it's a little different animal
    Where, exactly did you make up that statistic from?

    In fact, according to Microsoft, only 36% of users are using a VM.

    Checking in on the Windows Insider Program
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  6.    19 Dec 2014 #26
    Join Date : Aug 2014
    Australia, Adelaide
    Posts : 1,535
    W7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), LM 18.2 MATE (64 bit), W10 Home (64 bit)

    Continuous Testing Version


    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    Any chance that the next "upgrade" will be available on an ISO (instead of requiring the horrible in-place update garbage)?

    Microsoft should dump the unreliable in-place update paradigm entirely.
    The way they are forcing people to use it reminds me of their stubborn refusal to fix Metro's problems (during W8 testing and release).
    You're forgetting that the only way they can fix the problems with this process is by actually getting beta testers to use it...
    They've been testing this dodgy update system since W8 was released.

    They've had a claimed 200M beta testers (oops ... users) working on it and they still can't make it work properly.

    Even ordinary unfashionable updates are hit-and-miss and they've been using the same system for years.
    Microsoft update blunders going out of control

    Sending out an entire OS every few months is going to cause havoc.
    What about people who have:
    • Crappy Internet connections?
    • Mobile devices with ridiculously small download limits?


    What about business users?
    How will they test updates before deployment?

    Apple might be able to make such a system work, but only because every Mac is identical (i.e. won't run if the hardware is modified in any way).
    For example:
    Yosemite kills third-party SSD support | ZDNet


    I have no confidence that MS will be able to fix this new system.
    Forcing people to use fashionable new systems with a proven track record of failure is not going to win MS any plaudits.

    To undo the damage the W8 series caused, MS needs to use proven rock-solid code.

    MS would probably be better off releasing a separate Windows Testing distro with the bleeding edge technology and useless fashionista stuff in it (like Red Hat does with Fedora).
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  7.    19 Dec 2014 #27
    Join Date : Sep 2014
    Nashville, TN
    Posts : 3,143
    Windows 10 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    They've been testing this dodgy update system since W8 was released.
    No, they haven't. The new system is very different, and is called "flighting".

    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    They've had a claimed 200M beta testers (oops ... users) working on it and they still can't make it work properly.
    It's still a very early alpha stage dude...

    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    Even ordinary unfashionable updates are hit-and-miss and they've been using the same system for years.
    Microsoft update blunders going out of control
    You're conflating bugs in the updated binaries with issues with the update process. They are two different things, and I suspect you know that. So why try and pretend they are at all similar?

    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    Sending out an entire OS every few months is going to cause havoc.
    What about people who have:
    • Crappy Internet connections?
    • Mobile devices with ridiculously small download limits?
    As opposed to now, where we get Cumulative updates that are 500MB+ in size?

    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    What about business users?
    How will they test updates before deployment?
    The same way they do now... they use WSUS to block updates until they are tested, then allow them.

    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    I have no confidence that MS will be able to fix this new system.
    Wait, so you understand that it's a new system? Yet you pretended it wasn't?
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  8.    19 Dec 2014 #28
    Join Date : Nov 2013
    Houston
    Posts : 1,683
    3-Win-7Prox64 1-Win-10Prox64

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ThrashZone View Post
    The majority of testers are using vm's so it's a little different animal
    Where, exactly did you make up that statistic from?

    In fact, according to Microsoft, only 36% of users are using a VM.

    Checking in on the Windows Insider Program
    Why would you say I made that up for ?
    I can't open the News story posted by @Brink but it's now on page 8 in this section
    Windows 10: 41% of testers installed the build on their...
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  9.    19 Dec 2014 #29
    Join Date : Aug 2014
    Australia, Adelaide
    Posts : 1,535
    W7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), LM 18.2 MATE (64 bit), W10 Home (64 bit)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    They've had a claimed 200M beta testers (oops ... users) working on it and they still can't make it work properly.
    It's still a very early alpha stage dude...
    That was a reference to the W8 series (the OS that was released a couple of years ago).

    What you are suggesting is that MS is planning to include a system, that will only have received a few months worth of testing, in a product that needs to work perfectly out-of-the-box (or at least as well as W7 did).

    W10 needs to replace the W8 series, the way W7 replaced Vista (in market performance terms).

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    Even ordinary unfashionable updates are hit-and-miss and they've been using the same system for years.
    Microsoft update blunders going out of control
    You're conflating bugs in the updated binaries with issues with the update process. They are two different things, and I suspect you know that. So why try and pretend they are at all similar?
    Why are you pretending that buggy code isn't a separate issue to corrupted downloads?

    The bigger the download, the more chance it will be corrupted.

    Apparently you are unaware of the large number of posts on SevenForums, EightForums and TenForums from people whose problems were caused by corrupted downloads (i.e. their problem was solved by a new download).

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    Sending out an entire OS every few months is going to cause havoc.
    What about people who have:
    • Crappy Internet connections?
    • Mobile devices with ridiculously small download limits?
    As opposed to now, where we get Cumulative updates that are 500MB+ in size?
    Where is Service Pack 2 for W7 (SP1 was in 2011)?

    As far as I'm aware, W8 had no Service Packs (or at least they weren't designated as such).

    In my books, a 3 GB download is bigger than a 500 MB download.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    What about business users?
    How will they test updates before deployment?
    The same way they do now... they use WSUS to block updates until they are tested, then allow them.
    Under the current system, each individual update can be tested and any individual update that causes issues can be avoided.

    If each update is an entire OS, how do you block the broken bits?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    I have no confidence that MS will be able to fix this new system.
    Wait, so you understand that it's a new system? Yet you pretended it wasn't?
    "New" compared to the "Old" system (i.e. one update at a time).

    As far as I can tell, Service Packs didn't replace the entire OS (even though it felt like it).

    Quote Originally Posted by ThrashZone View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ThrashZone View Post
    The majority of testers are using vm's so it's a little different animal
    Where, exactly did you make up that statistic from?

    In fact, according to Microsoft, only 36% of users are using a VM.

    Checking in on the Windows Insider Program
    Why would you say I made that up for ?
    I can't open the News story posted by @Brink but it's now on page 8 in this section
    Windows 10: 41% of testers installed the build on their...
    Here is the Windows Blog link, "Checking in on the Windows Insider Program (2014-10-13)":
    Checking in on the Windows Insider Program
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  10.    19 Dec 2014 #30
    Join Date : Sep 2014
    Nashville, TN
    Posts : 3,143
    Windows 10 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by ThrashZone View Post
    Why would you say I made that up for ?
    I can't open the News story posted by @Brink but it's now on page 8 in this section
    Windows 10: 41% of testers installed the build on their...
    Yeah, that's the same story I just linked to, and the 41% refers to users who installed over production systems. The link says that only 36% of users installed in a VM. So that's why I'm wondering where that figure came from, since it's not from any reliable source.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

 
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