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  1.    09 Dec 2014 #21
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Posts : 1,552
    W7 32 bit, Linux Mint Xfce 18 64 bit

    Wouldn't that subscription model hurt OEM sales and sales at walmart? I really can't afford any more bills.


    Always on internet connection is impossible. ISP go down all the time. Outages can last for hours. I turn off my computer as well.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  2.    10 Dec 2014 #22

    Hi there

    I think in all of this people get TOO carried away -- perhaps some of the younger members here have never experienced those great days when we weren't ALWAYS reliant on things like Sat Nav's, email wasn't for a lot of people a daily chore and mobile phones weren't the late 20th and 21st century slave drivers and tethering machines.

    It's actually quite nice to get away from all this stuff and simply have the Internet and phone SWITCHED OFF for a while --you can still do an amazing amount of work if you want with just a stand alone computer - or even a pencil and paper !!!!.

    I'm not anti tech --it has its uses but WE should control it and not the other way around --and it really is quite pleasant just to switch off once in a while - so all these subscription models don't make a lot of sense in the end except to the SELLERS of the services --it certainly won't be cheaper in the long run for the consumers.

    An everyday example that might be understood by everybody here --even the younger ones -- Most Mobile phone monthly tariff's are a HUGE SWINDLE -- you ALWAYS get a better deal by buying your own phone and then using a decent pay as you go SIM -- just because you buy hours up front and it "looks" more expensive it actually isn't -- especially if you get the phone discounted and you aren't stuck all day long with your ears stuck to the phone -- a monthly contract invariably COSTS MORE - they often sweeten it with 100's of free texts etc -- which if you don't use is a waste - I've probably only ever sent about 3 (yes THREE) texts in my entire life.

    Subscriptions also invariably go UP - especially once they've hooked as many customers as they can.

    If non subscription methods netted people more money the businesses wouldn't be trying to switch people to subscriptions.

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  3.    10 Dec 2014 #23

    At your age, Jimbo, you can surely go further back.
    I remember those days when our access to updated info was , -- what was it called now -- are! newspapers. No internet, no mobiles. I typed on a new innovation - an electronic typewriter. I was on constant call out in my work and this (it had come into the tech world by then! was a pager.
    I could go back there, and feel no pain. Things have not changed a great deal since then, except that they are considerably faster. Downfall there is that we have less time to think of a sensible decision. (very obvious, today)
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  4.    16 Dec 2014 #24
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Mid-Hudson Valley, NYS
    Posts : 269
    Windows 10 Insider Program, Linux Mint 18.2, LinuxLite, Ubuntu 17.10

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    An everyday example that might be understood by everybody here --even the younger ones -- Most Mobile phone monthly tariff's are a HUGE SWINDLE -- you ALWAYS get a better deal by buying your own phone and then using a decent pay as you go SIM -- just because you buy hours up front and it "looks" more expensive it actually isn't -- especially if you get the phone discounted and you aren't stuck all day long with your ears stuck to the phone -- a monthly contract invariably COSTS MORE
    Had been a "dumb phone" user for several years (pay as you go). Cost: average of $10 per month (AT&T GoPhone).
    Recently saw a good deal on a Windows Phone (Nokia Lumia 635) for $39.95). Bought it and brought it to AT&T where their associates transferred my contacts and made the other necessary adjustments for my new phone.
    Very happy with the outcome. Phone syncs nicely with my Windows 8.1 home computer with files readily available via OneDrive. Cost: still the average of $10 per month.
    Beats the hell out of my grandkids' monthly bills!

    Rich
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  5.    16 Dec 2014 #25
    Join Date : Jun 2014
    Posts : 5,446
    Windows 10 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by rmonroe36 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    An everyday example that might be understood by everybody here --even the younger ones -- Most Mobile phone monthly tariff's are a HUGE SWINDLE -- you ALWAYS get a better deal by buying your own phone and then using a decent pay as you go SIM -- just because you buy hours up front and it "looks" more expensive it actually isn't -- especially if you get the phone discounted and you aren't stuck all day long with your ears stuck to the phone -- a monthly contract invariably COSTS MORE
    Had been a "dumb phone" user for several years (pay as you go). Cost: average of $10 per month (AT&T GoPhone).
    Recently saw a good deal on a Windows Phone (Nokia Lumia 635) for $39.95). Bought it and brought it to AT&T where their associates transferred my contacts and made the other necessary adjustments for my new phone.
    Very happy with the outcome. Phone syncs nicely with my Windows 8.1 home computer with files readily available via OneDrive. Cost: still the average of $10 per month.
    Beats the hell out of my grandkids' monthly bills!

    Rich
    How did you get a AT&t smart phone plan for $10.00 per month? I've been a AT&T customer for years and pay way more than 10 bucks a month.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  6.    16 Dec 2014 #26
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Mid-Hudson Valley, NYS
    Posts : 269
    Windows 10 Insider Program, Linux Mint 18.2, LinuxLite, Ubuntu 17.10

    Quote Originally Posted by Winuser View Post
    How did you get a AT&t smart phone plan for $10.00 per month? I've been a AT&T customer for years and pay way more than 10 bucks a month.
    In the included link you will find a Nokia Lumia 520 (Certified Like New) for $34.99 (mine was a new Lumia 635 for $39.99). If you buy a phone like this you can go to AT&T and buy a GoPhone package (no contract). I buy minutes ($.10 per). I usually pay for 3 months at a time ($25 with tax $27.02). That averages out to $10 per month. Mind you, this does not include data. For several years I have been paying the same amount for a "dumb phone" and decided to try a Windows "Smart Phone".

    Nokia Lumia 520 - GoPhone (Certified Like New) cell phone from AT&T

    AT&T will charge you more for the phone so shop around but make sure it is "Go Phone" compatible.

    Rich
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  7.    16 Dec 2014 #27
    Join Date : Jun 2014
    Posts : 5,446
    Windows 10 Pro

    I was hoping to save a few dollars on my mobile phone bill. I use my mobile phone a lot for voice and text. 10 cents a minute would probably cost me more per month. Data usage I try to keep it to a minimum. Plus I have two dumb phones on my plan.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  8.    17 Dec 2014 #28

    Hi there

    Simple MATHS shows why companies LOVE subscription services.

    Unlocked phone say costs 400 USD. Pay as you go sim -- up to you. Say 30 USD - you could easily make this last MONTHS if you use the Voice over IP stuff too. That's using the Internet for voice calls.

    Contract say FREE phone and 40 USD per month ==> even in a YEAR that's 480 USD. 2nd year even more profit as that's 960 USD !!!!.

    What a lot of people don't seem to realize either is that you can use a smart phone on the INTERNET without even having a SIM CARD in it !! so long as you can connect to wifi --so services like Skype can cheapen the whole thing considerably. A Pay as you go SIM used sensibly with VOIP services like SKYPE is IMO a MUCH more sensible way of paying for mobiles.

    If you travel a lot too don't forget very good tax free deals you get at International airports etc.

    A monthly contract is really an EXPENSIVE way of paying for mobile service - especially if most of your stuff is Internet rather than purely telephone related. Also look at things like Internet instant messaging and SKYPE.

    For those who don't understand about VOIP ( essentially using the Internet instead of the mobile providers 3/4G service for voice calls) and its possibilities this article is good (providing you ignore all the commercials about UK broadband providers -- the actual bits about VOIP are informative).

    Guide to VoIP - MoneySuperMarket

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  9.    17 Dec 2014 #29
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Posts : 1,552
    W7 32 bit, Linux Mint Xfce 18 64 bit

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    Hi there

    Simple MATHS shows why companies LOVE subscription services.

    Unlocked phone say costs 400 USD. Pay as you go sim -- up to you. Say 30 USD - you could easily make this last MONTHS if you use the Voice over IP stuff too. That's using the Internet for voice calls.

    Contract say FREE phone and 40 USD per month ==> even in a YEAR that's 480 USD. 2nd year even more profit as that's 960 USD !!!!.

    What a lot of people don't seem to realize either is that you can use a smart phone on the INTERNET without even having a SIM CARD in it !! so long as you can connect to wifi --so services like Skype can cheapen the whole thing considerably. A Pay as you go SIM used sensibly with VOIP services like SKYPE is IMO a MUCH more sensible way of paying for mobiles.

    If you travel a lot too don't forget very good tax free deals you get at International airports etc.

    A monthly contract is really an EXPENSIVE way of paying for mobile service - especially if most of your stuff is Internet rather than purely telephone related. Also look at things like Internet instant messaging and SKYPE.

    For those who don't understand about VOIP ( essentially using the Internet instead of the mobile providers 3/4G service for voice calls) and its possibilities this article is good (providing you ignore all the commercials about UK broadband providers -- the actual bits about VOIP are informative).

    Guide to VoIP - MoneySuperMarket

    Cheers
    jimbo

    Simple translation it is all about money.


    I am glad I found a pay as you go that doesn't have a monthly fee since I don't make very many calls or do very little texting. It doesn't cost me $40.00 or $30.00 a month. I would say about $10.00 to $15.00 a month. Also in the U.S. unlimited doesn't mean unlimited, people got their account terminated for using it to much.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  10.    17 Dec 2014 #30
    Join Date : Sep 2014
    Nashville, TN
    Posts : 3,142
    Windows 10 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    Simple MATHS shows why companies LOVE subscription services.
    While there's no doubt that wireless carriers make a boatload of money, your "simple MATHS" is a bit too simple.

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    Unlocked phone say costs 400 USD. Pay as you go sim -- up to you. Say 30 USD - you could easily make this last MONTHS if you use the Voice over IP stuff too. That's using the Internet for voice calls.

    Contract say FREE phone and 40 USD per month ==> even in a YEAR that's 480 USD. 2nd year even more profit as that's 960 USD !!!!.
    I think that ignores the fact that there is inherent cost in providing wireless service. The carriers must build out all the towers (hundreds of thousands of them), the physical circuits between towers, the staff and fleets to maintain these towers, the cost of managing websites and billing systems, federal regulations, accountants, etc.. the costs of doing business as a company, etc... All of that costs money. Which is paid for with what you referred to above as "profit".

    That's not even counting the billions they spend on acquiring the bandwidth in government auctions for the frequencies..

    Then the technology changes every few years and they have to completely replace all their equipment with the next generation.

    It's not cheap to be a wireless carrier. At least a real wireless carrier (MVNO's can be run quite cheaply, but they're just reselling service).

    VOIP is hardly a panacea either, especially if you're doing it yourself. Unless you have explicit support from your carrier (I think T-Mobile supports this), you can't move from one hotspot to another and keep the call going, nor can you switch from carrier to VOIP on the same call. It means you're tethered to one hotspot for the duration of your call, which won't work if you're mobile.

    Then, you as a person have to generally decide whether you want to make a mobile call or a voice call, and people calling you will never know if they can reach you on mobile or voip numbers, etc... It's a frustrating experience for anyone who isn't techy already, or who doesn't want spend the effort in managing it.

    Personally, I went the MVNO route. I use TING (created by the creators of tucows), and I pay ridiculously cheap rates. I have 3 lines with smartphones and data and pay roughly $50 per month in total for all 3, and that using roughly 1.5GB of data and hundreds of text messages per month, and over 1000 minutes (shared in total, not each).

    And no monthly contract. But, you do have to buy your phones up front, and that's expensive.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

 
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