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  1.    21 Nov 2015 #11
    Join Date : Aug 2015
    Aurora, Colorado
    Posts : 493
    Windows 10 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by FrozenCursor View Post
    Are the Redstone branded updates to be paid for by definition and hence necessarily launched after 29 July 2016? That would be a marketing and branding decision.

    Otherwise, I don't necessarily see a strict connection between 29 July 2016 and when the Redstone branded updates are to be rolled out. In fact, Windows-as-a-service is said to roll out updates as soon as they are ready to be rolled out.
    No. The Redstone cycle is like the Threshold cycle that just completed. Redstone will be an upgrade to Windows 10 and therefore free. The connection is that until the giveaway expires Microsoft's promise that those taking advantage of the free upgrade offer can have 30 days to revert to the OS they upgraded from has to be guaranteed. They decided the best way to guarantee folks have 30 day to decide is to control the distribution of Threshold through Windows Update.

    Of course this does not affect the cumulative updates Microsoft will be doing every few weeks because the version won't change again until Restone rollout next summer. Cumulative updates can deliver new features without affecting the versioning. This whole problem is about versioning because that is what redefines "previous version" in the rollback feature.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  2.    22 Nov 2015 #12
    Join Date : Apr 2015
    Posts : 169
    Windows 10

    Frankly, to me your last 2 postings contradict each other.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cbarnhorst View Post
    No. By then the free upgrade offer will have ended and the rollback issue will have gone away or changed. This is all about the free Windows 10 upgrade offer. By the time Redstone rolls out the only way Windows 7 and 8 users can get Windows 10 is buy it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cbarnhorst View Post
    No. The Redstone cycle is like the Threshold cycle that just completed. Redstone will be an upgrade to Windows 10 and therefore free. The connection is that until the giveaway expires Microsoft's promise that those taking advantage of the free upgrade offer can have 30 days to revert to the OS they upgraded from has to be guaranteed. They decided the best way to guarantee folks have 30 day to decide is to control the distribution of Threshold through Windows Update.

    Of course this does not affect the cumulative updates Microsoft will be doing every few weeks because the version won't change again until Restone rollout next summer. Cumulative updates can deliver new features without affecting the versioning. This whole problem is about versioning because that is what redefines "previous version" in the rollback feature.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  3.    22 Nov 2015 #13
    Join Date : Jul 2015
    Posts : 419
    Windows 10 Pro 64bit v1709 build 16299.15

    On ...11 no issues here. Carry on, smoke em if you got em.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  4.    22 Nov 2015 #14
    Join Date : Aug 2015
    Aurora, Colorado
    Posts : 493
    Windows 10 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by FrozenCursor View Post
    Frankly, to me your last 2 postings contradict each other.
    They are responses to two different replies. Microsoft broke a promise (albeit inadvertently) concerning the Windows 10 giveaway. They have acted so as not to keep breaking it. The giveaway expires in July and so does the promise.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  5.    22 Nov 2015 #15
    Join Date : Jan 2014
    Oak Ridge TN, USA
    Posts : 24,523
    Windows 10 Pro x64

    Quote Originally Posted by Cbarnhorst View Post
    They are responses to two different replies. Microsoft broke a promise (albeit inadvertently) concerning the Windows 10 giveaway. They have acted so as not to keep breaking it. The giveaway expires in July and so does the promise.
    How has MS broken any promise? And how can you say that the rollback will not continue to work now or in the future? All that's occurred it MS has dropped one way of getting the update, direct download of the ISO. And I don't see how that would effect anything other than using an old WIn7/WIn8 key to activate the OS.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  6.    22 Nov 2015 #16
    Join Date : Aug 2015
    Aurora, Colorado
    Posts : 493
    Windows 10 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by BunnyJ View Post
    How has MS broken any promise? And how can you say that the rollback will not continue to work now or in the future? All that's occurred it MS has dropped one way of getting the update, direct download of the ISO. And I don't see how that would effect anything other than using an old WIn7/WIn8 key to activate the OS.
    Microsoft promised that those who wanted to try Windows 10 via the Get Windows 10 giveaway program could revert to their old OS for 30 days. That is what Microsoft broke. The November Update changed the "previous Windows version" from their old OS to Windows 10 build 10240 thus preventing a reversion to the old OS regardless of how many days they had left to revert. The rollback works, but what the user is rolling back to has changed without the user having any warning. Because of the change to Windows Update as the only path for the November Update, new users have their 30 days to decide intact, but users who have already upgraded to the November Update and still had days left to decide to return to a legacy OS are out of luck. As far as the legacy product key is concerned, how can you leverage that when the only iso available for download doesn't support the feature? The feature doesn't come into play during the November Update download from Windows Update because that is an upgrade, not a clean install. Catch 22.
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  7.    22 Nov 2015 #17
    Join Date : Jan 2014
    Oak Ridge TN, USA
    Posts : 24,523
    Windows 10 Pro x64

    Quote Originally Posted by Cbarnhorst View Post
    Microsoft promised that those who wanted to try Windows 10 via the Get Windows 10 giveaway program could revert to their old OS for 30 days. That is what Microsoft broke. The November Update changed the "previous Windows version" from their old OS to Windows 10 build 10240 thus preventing a reversion to the old OS regardless of how many days they had left to revert. The rollback works, but what the user is rolling back to has changed without the user having any warning. Because of the change to Windows Update as the only path for the November Update, new users have their 30 days to decide intact, but users who have already upgraded to the November Update and still had days left to decide to return to a legacy OS are out of luck. As far as the legacy product key is concerned, how can you leverage that when the only iso available for download doesn't support the feature? The feature doesn't come into play during the November Update download from Windows Update because that is an upgrade, not a clean install. Catch 22.
    No they haven't. If you have the new build on you PC and you want to go back to 10240 what's stopping anyone? Seriously, you're overacting to this and you are not basing any of these statements on any facts posted my MS.

    Just what's to stop someone from going from the new build(10586) back to 10240? Assuming they have the windows.old in tact and days left on the rollback?
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  8.    22 Nov 2015 #18
    Join Date : Sep 2014
    Nashville, TN
    Posts : 3,143
    Windows 10 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Cbarnhorst View Post
    Microsoft promised that those who wanted to try Windows 10 via the Get Windows 10 giveaway program could revert to their old OS for 30 days.
    Dude, you can revert back to your old OS any time you want, even after 30 days. The 30 days is just how long MS retains the Windows.old directory, for an automatic rollback. You can still re-install your old OS any time you want.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  9.    22 Nov 2015 #19
    Join Date : Aug 2015
    Aurora, Colorado
    Posts : 493
    Windows 10 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by BunnyJ View Post
    No they haven't. If you have the new build on you PC and you want to go back to 10240 what's stopping anyone? Seriously, you're overacting to this and you are not basing any of these statements on any facts posted my MS.

    Just what's to stop someone from going from the new build(10586) back to 10240? Assuming they have the windows.old in tact and days left on the rollback?
    Builds are not version boundaries. There are dozens of builds in the same version. What triggered the concern was the change from Windows version 10 to Windows version 1511. 1511 is not a build. It is a version of Windows in the same way a new service pack changed Windows 7 to Windows 7 Sp1. Different versions. You can go back to 10240 from build 10576 without losing apps but you can't go back to 10240 from 10586 without losing apps because you have crossed a version boundary. The software won't let you. You are free to do it but your options have changed.

    As far as the windows.old file is concerned, of course it would be 10240. But that is the problem. Prior to doing the November Update, the windows.old file wasn't for 10240 for users recently taking advantage of the Get Windows 10 offer. The windows.old file was for the legacy OS. And that is exactly the issue here. You have hit the nail on the head. The recent Windows 10 adopter has lost his chance to revert to the legacy OS. Of course he can use a system backup...if he made one.
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  10.    22 Nov 2015 #20
    Join Date : Feb 2014
    Posts : 9,471
    Windows 10 Professional

    We all have the iso's from every Build, we can rollback ourselves anytime!
      My ComputersSystem Spec

 
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