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  1.    23 Nov 2015 #131
    Join Date : Jul 2014
    UK
    Posts : 19,139
    Windows 10

    Quote Originally Posted by zooburner View Post
    Yes but even then it's two downloads instead of one the 10240 version, and then the TH2 update.

    it would take a whole day to do that, if you simply had TH2 disk you could update/fresh install them all much more quickly and reliably
    Just 1 download, then the other 2 pcs get the files from that one

    Why would the average home user want to fiddle about downloading the files when they can just let the machine grab them and then inform the user to restart and install
    Many people don't care about updates, so doing most of the work for them in the background is the easiest solution
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  2.    23 Nov 2015 #132
    Join Date : Aug 2015
    San Francisco, California USA
    Posts : 1,005
    Windows XP/7/8/8.1/10, Linux, Android, FreeBSD Unix

    Quote Originally Posted by zooburner View Post
    Lol it still does not make sense.. what is best for everyone 2x3gb downloads (1024 the TH2) , or 1x3gb up to date one ?
    Not to mention the time it takes users to install two operating systems.
    Even if bandwidth simply is not an issue, it still makes no sense.
    That's not their problem but your problem because as far as Microsoft is concerned, they only send out the update to the CDNs once and the CDNs loads it on their servers and basically the bandwidth used is only once for Microsoft. The users basically will download from the cache which is the nearest CDN server which is usually based on the DNS server you use so the only used bandwidth is really the one between the user and the CDN server, not even the tier one internet backbones will be effected so it's really the user who will be wasting time and bandwidth.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  3.    23 Nov 2015 #133
    Join Date : Aug 2015
    San Francisco, California USA
    Posts : 1,005
    Windows XP/7/8/8.1/10, Linux, Android, FreeBSD Unix

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyhi View Post
    Bandwidth is an issue - for the user with a data cap - or overage charges..
    Three failed windows update downloads attempts equals a lot of worthless downloaded data..

    Vs. One downloaded ISO
    Exactly, it effects the one at the end of the pipe receiving. I have a clear channel connection so there are no caps except my DSL connection with 8 static IPs is still 6Mbps. For all we know, maybe it's just how businesses all help each other. In the old days, it used to be hardware companies and software companies all basically trying to push the other one to it's limits so they can come out with something new. Now, the software companies are basically helping the Internet Service Providers by making users go over their caps so it's more profitable for the ISPs too.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  4.    23 Nov 2015 #134
    Join Date : Jun 2015
    Posts : 298
    Windows 7 (SP1)

    Quote Originally Posted by Almighty1 View Post
    That's not their problem but your problem because as far as Microsoft is concerned, they only send out the update to the CDNs once and the CDNs loads it on their servers and basically the bandwidth used is only once for Microsoft. The users basically will download from the cache which is the nearest CDN server which is usually based on the DNS server you use so the only used bandwidth is really the one between the user and the CDN server, not even the tier one internet backbones will be effected so it's really the user who will be wasting time and bandwidth.
    Got you, so these people don't charge Microsoft any bandwidth charges at all ?
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  5.    23 Nov 2015 #135
    Join Date : Aug 2015
    San Francisco, California USA
    Posts : 1,005
    Windows XP/7/8/8.1/10, Linux, Android, FreeBSD Unix

    Quote Originally Posted by zooburner View Post
    Got you, so these people don't charge Microsoft any bandwidth charges at all ?
    I run and own a ISP and the way it works is Akamai will send us the servers for free to host on our network so our customers and anyone who uses our DNS will never need to go off-network for anything that is hosted on the Akamai servers. Akamai does not pay us anything other than saving us bandwidth and we pay for the electricity while Akamai will remotely update the servers. If something goes wrong, they will just ship us another set of servers and have us ship the bad ones back. Microsoft and all the other companies actually pay Akamai based on how much content is sent from their servers to Akamai.

    Akamai is only one of the CDN's. Level3 is another and there are others too.

    Akamai Technologies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  6.    23 Nov 2015 #136
    Join Date : Jun 2015
    Posts : 298
    Windows 7 (SP1)

    Quote Originally Posted by paulsalter View Post
    Just 1 download, then the other 2 pcs get the files from that one

    Why would the average home user want to fiddle about downloading the files when they can just let the machine grab them and then inform the user to restart and install
    Many people don't care about updates, so doing most of the work for them in the background is the easiest solution
    Of course not, but if you want to clean install ?
    What if the upgrade fails ?
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  7.    23 Nov 2015 #137
    Join Date : Jul 2015
    Poole Dorset UK
    Posts : 2,563
    Windows 10 x64 Home Version(1709) Build16299.98

    Mine keep fingers crossed has never failed on upgrade coming through update but if it did then I would try it again until it went in.
    All I make sure of on all my ones I look after is that I have backed up.
    All updates are installed.
    All drivers are up to date and all defrag and crap removed via Ccleaner.

    Then once it starts only touch the laptops/tablets when told too.
    That is why with me anyway they have gone in first time.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  8.    23 Nov 2015 #138
    Join Date : Feb 2014
    Posts : 487

    Quote Originally Posted by zooburner View Post
    The problem i see is this..

    That if you clean install doing 10240 then if you have to install the TH2 update, which in effect is installing Windows again over the top, then it's not really a 'clean install' at all. We will be left with perpetual update problems.

    Bring back proper service packs, and updated disks/ISO downloads is my call.
    It's worse that that, if you clean install with the ISO available in the Windows Media Creation Tool (10240), you can't then just install the 10586 Threshold 2 update even if you wanted to. It won't let you. And if updating from previous version, even if you delete 'Previous Windows Installation' using the Disc Cleanup tool to try and get around the 31 day rollback period, it still won't let you. Instead you have to wait an unknown period time, which could be weeks or even over a month for all I know, until Windows feels like downloading the update.

    So, as it stands at the moment, this is a real life scenario of why this is ridiculous. A friend of mine needed more space on his PC so has bought a larger harddrive. I put off installing the new harddrive until after Threshold 2 was released, so he will have a new harddrive and a clean install of the latest version of Windows 10.

    Without a 10586 ISO, it will mean downloading and installing 10240. Then because there isn't a way to get 10586 via Windows Update I will have to install Skype Desktop (because 10240 doesn't have Skype Video and Messaging built in). None of the other improvements that he's already got will work either, such as being able to change the title bar colour. Then I can't encrypt his system drive with Bitlocker XTS-AES, because it isn't an option in 10240. I will then have to wait for an undetermined period until Windows Update feels like downloading the update, ask him to tell me when it has, then go back and uninstall Skype Desktop, decrypt the system drive, re-encrypt the system drive with XTS-AES, etc. You get the point. It's ridiculous and messy.

    I am obviously aware of ways to unofficially get a 10586 ISO, but that's not the point. The point is Microsoft's decision to say "Ooo, just get it through Windows Update" is stupid.


    Quote Originally Posted by zooburner View Post
    Got you, so these people don't charge Microsoft any bandwidth charges at all ?
    Ha ha. Akamai charge Microsoft based on the number of bits served from their servers. Hence the well hidden, on-by-default setting in Windows 10 to allow Microsoft to use their customers computers as a peer-to-peer network and thus their bandwidth, hardware and energy to distribute Microsoft Updates and Apps for free, thus increasing Microsofts profits.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  9.    23 Nov 2015 #139
    Join Date : Aug 2015
    Raleigh, NC, USA
    Posts : 1,767
    Windows 10 Pro x64

    Quote Originally Posted by hTconeM9user View Post
    Mine keep fingers crossed has never failed on upgrade coming through update but if it did then I would try it again until it went in.
    TH2 via Windows Update failed on the first 2 PCs I tried it on. Once those failures occurred, the update was no longer available for those PCs when I checked. So I downloaded the 1511 ISO and used a USB drive to install on all my PCs without so much as a hiccup. That easy procedure will apparently be unavailable to users who experience failed Windows Update TH2 upgrades now.
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  10.    23 Nov 2015 #140
    Join Date : Apr 2015
    Posts : 169
    Windows 10

    Before Windows 10, there were (very occasionally) failed upgrades in the automatic Windows Update mode, but I dare say that they 'never' rose to the level where the (average) user got inconvenienced, they always remained 'under the hood'.

    This 'automatic-updates-just-work' is the basis for Windows-as-a-service, IMHO, and it is quite jarring that it broke (at least for a significant number of users) exactly when it is needed in Windows 10.

    Can't Microsoft execute a test routine on each computer right after the automatic (and forced) update, and revert to the pre-updated configuration if necessary?
      My ComputerSystem Spec

 
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