Microsoft Blocks Classic Shell in Windows 10 Build 9879

blaze007 said:

can someone tell me what is actually wrong with the start menu in windows 10?

Nothing, just some people don't like it and want to use there own.

BunnyJ said:

groze said:

HippsieGypsie said:

groze said:

HippsieGypsie
Does that violate the DOJ? No, I am not trying to stir up controversy, I just want some clarification.

DOJ?

U.S. Department of Justice. There was a case against Microsoft something to do with browsers.

I know of a case that was in Europe over that but the US??
And how would that apply to use of a tool like Classic Shell?? This is beta software/OS and it's not the final product so I think you're jumping the gun on calling in the DOJ.

BunnyJ & HippsieGypsie

I found it on wiki. I don't think the decision applies now. The Europe was to provide alliterative browser choice, when the operating system starts up for the 1st time, since Internet Explorer can't be removed anymore.

Rickkins said:

I think that the only time they would have a legal issue is should they go out of their way to block a particular piece of software from running on their platform for the sole reason of blocking said soft from competing with their own.

And for sure, that is a most difficult thing to prove. Not to mention prohibitively expensive....

And at any rate, that is likely not really the case in this instance.

Agree. In this in this instance it’s not the case. Ivo explained in his post HERE about his software. That’s good enough for me. MS may be the biggest kid on the block, but they aren't the biggest bully on the block.

It’s tuff being the biggest kid in the neighborhood. Everyone is watching. Bottom line is that MS would be cutting off their nose to spite their own face if not allowing third party to install.

I don't think Microsoft could legally block third party software in a commercial OS, except possibly in the case of serious compatibility issues. But Windows 10 is currently only a technical preview provided free of charge for testing purposes. As such Microsoft is able to specify terms and restrictions that would be unacceptable or illegal in the released product. Testing of the Windows 10 preview is completely voluntary. If you don't like the terms don't download the product.

In the past Microsoft has had considerable legal trouble for doing nothing more than include software that competes with a third party product. This was the case when Internet Explorer was provided with Windows 98. As a requirement for sale of XP and later systems in the European Union Microsoft was forced to produce special N versions that did not include Media Player.

Actively blocking third party software would be far more serious.

Microsoft has a long history of going to considerable lengths to ensure third party software runs in a new OS the software was not designed for and would otherwise be incompatible with. Even when the software is in competition with Microsoft products and the developers engaged in practices they were specifically warned against.

blaze007 said:

can someone tell me what is actually wrong with the start menu in windows 10?

If you like it, use it.
I am not fond of the tiled menu (I think you should be able to toggle it).
I am not fond of the idea that legacy and modern apps are all together and can not be arranged.
I am not fond of often used items not being present (Control Panel, PC Settings, Desktop, Devices, run command, etc) on menu.
I am not fond of the idea that you can not easily switch between start menu and start screen.
I am not fond of the power on/off placement and having to click picture to logon and off (why isn't it combined?)
...these are just a few, but hey that's just me,
I find Windows 7 much easier to use and navigate and Start8 for Windows 8/8.1/10 a much more elegant choice for my 3rd party menu.

Trust_No1 said:

blaze007 said:

can someone tell me what is actually wrong with the start menu in windows 10?

If you like it, use it.
I am not fond of the tiled menu (I think you should be able to toggle it).
I am not fond of the idea that legacy and modern apps are all together and can not be arranged.
I am not fond of often used items not being present (Control Panel, PC Settings, Desktop, Devices, run command, etc) on menu.
I am not fond of the idea that you can not easily switch between start menu and start screen.
I am not fond of the power on/off placement and having to click picture to logon and off (why isn't it combined?)
...these are just a few, but hey that's just me,
I find Windows 7 much easier to use and navigate and Start8 for Windows 8/8.1/10 a much more elegant choice for my 3rd party menu.

You just not fond of anything are you. . .

Trust_No1 said:

blaze007 said:

can someone tell me what is actually wrong with the start menu in windows 10?

If you like it, use it.
I am not fond of the tiled menu (I think you should be able to toggle it).
you unpin everything and the tile menu goes away

I am not fond of the idea that legacy and modern apps are all together and can not be arranged.
im not sure what u mean by this, the modern apps are at the top of the list and the legacy items are in folders same as in windows 7

I am not fond of often used items not being present (Control Panel, PC Settings, Desktop, Devices, run command, etc) on menu.
you can customize the start menu and add all those items to it or right click on the start menu and menu with those items open.

I am not fond of the idea that you can not easily switch between start menu and start screen.
there isn't a start screen at least on my copy of windows 10

I am not fond of the power on/off placement and having to click picture to logon and off (why isn't it combined?)
open the start menu the button to shutdown, restart or sleep is right there.

...these are just a few, but hey that's just me,
I find Windows 7 much easier to use and navigate and Start8 for Windows 8/8.1/10 a much more elegant choice for my 3rd party menu.

did you spend any actually time using windows 10?

Lee said:

Trust_No1 said:

blaze007 said:

can someone tell me what is actually wrong with the start menu in windows 10?

If you like it, use it.
I am not fond of the tiled menu (I think you should be able to toggle it).
I am not fond of the idea that legacy and modern apps are all together and can not be arranged.
I am not fond of often used items not being present (Control Panel, PC Settings, Desktop, Devices, run command, etc) on menu.
I am not fond of the idea that you can not easily switch between start menu and start screen.
I am not fond of the power on/off placement and having to click picture to logon and off (why isn't it combined?)
...these are just a few, but hey that's just me,
I find Windows 7 much easier to use and navigate and Start8 for Windows 8/8.1/10 a much more elegant choice for my 3rd party menu.

You just not fond of anything are you. . .

LOL, well I like some things about Win 10 just not the menu

blaze007 said:

did you spend any actually time using windows 10?

I have pretty much responded about every app they have, that I typically use, So the answer is YES.

Now, the menu isn't my only issues with Windows 10, but I have spent enough time on two different machines to know I don't care for the menu.
I also don't like the fact that Windows 8/8.1 doesn't have a menu so use Start8 with that
hey it just MHO
you asked, I responded

as I stated earlier, if you like it, use it. No biggie...

HippsieGypsie said:

I hardly doubt MS would ever state that, especially within a beta. Perhaps “Most programs will run”, but not all. Please reference where you come up with at least some of this stuff.

Heh...Somebody rolled off the wrong side of the bed this morning... Allow me to put your doubts to rest...

Before you install Windows Technical Preview - Microsoft Windows

And here's the pertinent text--from Microsoft:

What does it work with?

Technical Preview should work with the same devices and programs that work with Windows 8.1, but you might need to update or reinstall some of them.
Drivers for basic functions like storage, networking, input, and display come with Windows. These drivers allow you to complete the Windows installation and connect to the Internet. You might be able to get more drivers from Windows Update.
For compatibility info, see the Windows 8.1 Compatibility Center.

I would have provided the links in the first place--except that I thought everyone who's installed the TP would have been familiar with that material already. Yep, it's true: Microsoft officially advises you to use the 8.1 Compatibility Advisor to test for compatibility with Win10TP.

You'd think Microsoft would at least *test* a program before declaring that it is "incompatible," wouldn't you...?

Again > Where do you come up with this stuff?

Uh, HG...when the program refuses to install, and Win10 TP pops up with a warning box that tells you the program is incompatible--(but not why--and doesn't supply a bit more information with you)--if that isn't "declaring that the program is incompatible" I don't what is? What are *you* talking about?...

Now MS needs to test third-party programs? Nay. It’s the other way around.

You are really having a difficult time with this, aren't you? Look, HG, when Win10TP pops up a message telling you that you cannot install a certain program because of compatibility issues, what conclusion can be reached except that they've tested it and found it incompatible? That's what this entire thread revolves around.