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  1.    28 Oct 2014 #11
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    Watford
    Posts : 14,455
    Windows 10 Home 64bit
    Thread Starter

    You can use most Linux distros without resort to the command shell these days but sometimes it is quicker to use it.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  2.    28 Oct 2014 #12

    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    Linux is easier if the programs you want to install are in your Repositories.

    If they aren't and they don't include install scripts then "hilarity ensues" (and I mean in the TV Tropes sense).
    Hi there

    The repositories are usually decently populated for the typical Linux distros (about 95% of typical users choose one or more of these - LMT, OPENSUSE, FEDORA, CENTOS,(K)UBUNTU).

    In any case even relative noobs can obtain a SOURCE FILE (most stuff is OPEN SOURCE) and compile it -- often it's a better method and provided you have the libraries, the gcc compiler and sometimes the kernel source installed it works most of the time.

    The advantage of using the SOURCE is that you are Distro independent. You don't even have to KNOW how to code in most instances. !!

    Cheers
    jimbo
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  3.    28 Oct 2014 #13
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    Posts : 104
    Windows 7 x64 HP

    I'm in favor of this if developper can send their software without any adware included in the installation files. It will also make rookies able to search for software for their problems easily in a malware free environment. Hopefully, it can give smaller developpers a chance to get their software known.

    Of course, MS needs to be lax on what kind of software can apply to be stored but, at the same time, need to be severe so that the installer does not contain malware/adware and co. There also could be ways to encourage people that downloads software to donate or use a simple advertisement banner during the installation process that the developper earn from it, instead on relying on people being stupid enough to install the adware.

    Of course, you can always install software manually. This "repository" is only a place to make things easier, not to make Windows a closed OS.
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  4.    28 Oct 2014 #14
    Join Date : Aug 2014
    Australia, Adelaide
    Posts : 1,569
    W7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), LM 18.2 MATE (64 bit), W10 Home (64 bit)

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    In any case even relative noobs can obtain a SOURCE FILE (most stuff is OPEN SOURCE) and compile it -- often it's a better method and provided you have the libraries, the gcc compiler and sometimes the kernel source installed it works most of the time.

    The advantage of using the SOURCE is that you are Distro independent. You don't even have to KNOW how to code in most instances. !!
    IMO, that's only true if:

    • You have the other additional libraries required
    • Someone has provided a list of commands so that you can "Copy & Paste" them into the Terminal


    The last time I did a large amount of compiling was ~20 years ago (so I've forgotten everything that I once knew).
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  5.    28 Oct 2014 #15
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Posts : 920
    Windows 10 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by unifex View Post
    Well, that depends on what are you installing. This problem has nothing to do with the installer concept itself. The software I'm installing requires two- three clicks at most : setup and eula being the only steps. Or are you saying that Linux repositories guarantee the absence of malware? Or that Linux software always works properly?
    I like having a single command, especially for those things you can use command line switches with. I just find it easier for documentation and repeating. Just cut and paste the command. I think it's easier than describing the next, next, finish and then navigate menus and select options. I write tons of documentation at work, it's easier to just have a pile of commands somebody can put and paste...they never make a typo or mistake this way.

    I've never seen malware/toolbars included with any Linux software. This is very different than Windows where you have to be very cautious to the questions you answer in the next, next, next finish sequence. I was kinda just making a joke that even after you install, you end up having to install something that you didn't want in the first place.



    Quote Originally Posted by Trust_No1 View Post
    This is the reason I gave up on Linux, it is far to confusing. I feel like I am back in the 80's, having to run COBAL UNIX commands. Plus, I never know what I can use with what. Oh and those typo's what a nightmare.
    Yeah, it's something that many don't like in Linux. Howerver, for a systems admin who repeats tasks a ton, it's a godsend. you just cut and paste the commands in, hit enter and you know they are right. Even Windows is moving tons of admin stuff into powershell and reducing or flat out removing the GUI admin panels entirely. For example, Exchange Server 2013 does a ton at the PowerShell and some things in a Web GUI. NO standalone Exchange Management Console anymore on the server.

    With having used Linux now for almost 14 years professionally, I find Linux boxes almost easier to administer and maintain, and debug when problems crop up than I do Windows boxes. And none of my linux servers even have a GUI. I maintain them almost exclusively via an SSH connection.


    For about 6 years, I've used ninite a ton for installing the standard windows fare of software. Gives me the ability to install about 20 different things, all with 1 executable with 0 questions to answer. And you simply re-run the executable to update everything all in one fell swoop.

    The above type of thing from a command line would be great. If you could type oneget -updateall and it would update your OS, and almost all of your installed software in 1 command, it would be a huge timesaver. Think of it like Windows updates...but not only for Windows and Office, but for almost every piece of software installed on your machine.
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  6.    28 Oct 2014 #16
    Join Date : Sep 2014
    Posts : 236
    7, 10TP

    Quote Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post

    I like having a single command, especially for those things you can use command line switches with. I just find it easier for documentation and repeating. Just cut and paste the command. I think it's easier than describing the next, next, finish and then navigate menus and select options. I write tons of documentation at work, it's easier to just have a pile of commands somebody can put and paste...they never make a typo or mistake this way.

    I've never seen malware/toolbars included with any Linux software. This is very different than Windows where you have to be very cautious to the questions you answer in the next, next, next finish sequence. I was kinda just making a joke that even after you install, you end up having to install something that you didn't want in the first place.
    I do not understand the point of "explaining" the installer procedure - it seems pretty self-explanatory to me: you run the installer and respond to what you see on the screen, usually just click "Next" a couple of times without any other choice given. Why would you write documentation on doing that?

    The reason there is no malware for Linux is that Linux "market share" is negligible, so why bother targeting Linux boxes? It does not mean that Linux is more secure, nor does it mean that it's not possible.

    I got that it was a joke. On the other hand, it's relevant for people who try a lot of shareware or other stuff of unclear origin. If you are installing professional software that actually costs real money, this is never an issue.
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  7.    28 Oct 2014 #17
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Posts : 920
    Windows 10 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by unifex View Post
    I do not understand the point of "explaining" the installer procedure - it seems pretty self-explanatory to me: you run the installer and respond to what you see on the screen, usually just click "Next" a couple of times without any other choice given. Why would you write documentation on doing that?
    Well, let's see. Because I'm not installing simple packages like notepad++ and avast, I'm installing software like SharePoint Server, Exchange Server, SQL Server, Microsoft System Center, etc. I much prefer documenting the stuff on Linux, where I can just include a bunch of commands, some sed scripts to modify config files, a few echo statements to insert specific configurations, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by unifex View Post
    The reason there is no malware for Linux is that Linux "market share" is negligible, so why bother targeting Linux boxes? It does not mean that Linux is more secure, nor does it mean that it's not possible.
    I didn't say anything at all about Linux being more secure because of this. I'm just saying it's refreshing to not have to deal with malware/toolbars/etc. Marketshare is negligible on the desktop level, but not in the server room. And that's where I spend my days. I work for a software as a service development shop. We have around 1k servers, 95% of which are Linux boxes. Apache, Tomcat, mongodb, mysql, bind, freepbx, all happily running on Linux. And costing us a crap ton less than what the remaining 5% of our Windows boxes cost us.

    Quote Originally Posted by unifex View Post
    I got that it was a joke. On the other hand, it's relevant for people who try a lot of shareware or other stuff of unclear origin. If you are installing professional software that actually costs real money, this is never an issue.
    Even in a professional software environment, a lot of free software is used. I'm always dealing with stuff that snuck it's way onto our Windows desktops.
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  8.    29 Oct 2014 #18
    Join Date : Sep 2014
    Posts : 236
    7, 10TP

    Well, that's the point, isn't it? For an admin, who performs tasks repeatedly, scripting is most useful as you can automate common parts of you daily routine. However, we're mostly talking about a user client. Typical users do not install software on a daily basis. On my home machine I do that perhaps twice a year. I can't remember all possible settings and most importantly I don't want to. So for a user a familiar GUI is more useful than a scripting ability in the command line.
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  9.    29 Oct 2014 #19
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    Nothern Ohio
    Posts : 582
    Windows 7/64 Professional

    I can understand someone with the job of taking care of 1000 computers this would come in handy.
    For someone like me it would be a toy to play with.

    I would never use it enough to remember the script. I would be spending my time looking for the proper script and then verifying that it was correct before running it. I have done some looking into Power Shell and I get lost in course 101.
    What these online courses don't understand is nooby. It's like taking Trigonometry before you learn 2 X 2 = 4.
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  10.    29 Oct 2014 #20

    Hi there

    Most Online courses are pretty horrible - and YOUTUBE / Video presentations are also IMO an abomination for LEARNING stuff. They are fine once you've mastered the basics but there's no substitute for a "Conventional" course -- Self study with Printed course materials which you can refer to / make notes in / go at your own pace / do over and over again.

    I've no problems with ONLINE examinations etc once you've done the coursework or even online tutoring / progress assessment but IMO the basis course should be a sensible self study OFF LINE course -- with the computer to help as a research tool (Google etc).

    There are still quite a few "conventional" courses available -- just download and work through as you would have done at school years ago and use the computer as an extra tool . !!!

    For really good tutorials and how it SHOULD be done just have a look at some of Kari's excellent stuff with Virtualisation issues and Brinks on a lot of other more general topics.

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My ComputerSystem Spec

 
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