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  1.    09 Oct 2014 #1

    10 doesn’t fix the desktop it fixes 8's reputation


    The desktop environment in Windows 8.1 is pretty good.
    This was not the message that Microsoft conveyed at its Windows 10 launch event last week, a presentation that had Microsoft's historically change-averse but financially important business customers in mind. Whether the company was looking forward to multiple desktops and Continuum or backward to the Start menu and the command prompt, Microsoft's message was clear: we have finished undoing all that stuff you didn't like.
    But regardless of the message, the Windows 10 desktop is really only building on the foundation Windows 8.1 and Windows 8.1 Update 1 laid. These updates restored the Start button, allowed desktop and laptop users to boot into the desktop environment by default, and gave the familiar Windows taskbar the ability to launch and switch between full-screen Windows Store apps.
    After using the new desktop for a few days, I can say that it really feels more like Windows 8.2 than Windows 10 (the software isn't nearly done yet, but the point stands). And there's some indication that this was Microsoft's plan all along; the Start menu and the ability to run Windows Store apps in resizable windows were originally rumored to be part of an "Update 2" for Windows 8.1, though those plans were obviously scrubbed.
    So why is Microsoft calling this one Windows 10 rather than continuing to build on top of the two-year-old Windows 8? The answer is in the name.
    http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/...8s-reputation/
    Last edited by gregrocker; 09 Oct 2014 at 00:28.
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  2.    09 Oct 2014 #2

    Hi there

    ?????

    This article says NOTHING --- do people actually get PAID for writing this stuff !!!!! - I'm sure my DOGS would have come up with the same conclusion.

    In any case ANY OS is usually building on improvements in it's previous version --I'm sure parts of the Windows Kernel are still probably based on Windows NT --how many years ago was that.

    If the OS is reasonably modularly designed then you add new components such as TOUCH as and when new hardware appears -- what's so new about that.

    Eventually a total re-write might be necessary - such as the change from Windows 95 (DOS based with a "bolt on" GUI) to Windows 2000 and Windows NT which radically changed the kernel but that happens very rarely and is a hugely expensive business.

    If Windows 10 was NOT more or less like Windows 7 with the best bits of Windows 8.1 then who on earth would be persuaded to use it - businesses have enough to do without having to train their staff in the basic use of Windows.


    'Bleendin Obvious I would have thought.


    Cheers
    jimbo
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  3. Joined : Sep 2014
    Croatia
    Posts : 62
    Windows 10 Home, build 10586.218
       09 Oct 2014 #3

    jimbo45 said: View Post
    Hi there

    ?????

    This article says NOTHING --- do people actually get PAID for writing this stuff !!!!! - I'm sure my DOGS would have come up with the same conclusion.

    In any case ANY OS is usually building on improvements in it's previous version --I'm sure parts of the Windows Kernel are still probably based on Windows NT --how many years ago was that.

    If the OS is reasonably modularly designed then you add new components such as TOUCH as and when new hardware appears -- what's so new about that.

    Eventually a total re-write might be necessary - such as the change from Windows 95 (DOS based with a "bolt on" GUI) to Windows 2000 and Windows NT which radically changed the kernel but that happens very rarely and is a hugely expensive business.

    If Windows 10 was NOT more or less like Windows 7 with the best bits of Windows 8.1 then who on earth would be persuaded to use it - businesses have enough to do without having to train their staff in the basic use of Windows.


    'Bleendin Obvious I would have thought.


    Cheers
    jimbo
    You are right, BUT, I'd like to quote this part from the article:

    After using the new desktop for a few days, I can say that it really feels more like Windows 8.2 than Windows 10 (the software isn't nearly done yet, but the point stands).
    This is entirely true. Nothing and nobody can beat this fact. Build 9841 is pretty much Windows 8.2. Will the final build in about half a year or so be different enough to be called Windows 10, we don't know yet. I'm not even talking from visual point of view, but rather what Windows 10 brings to the table. There'll be bunch of new features, however, most of those features will not be useful to average PC user. Not to mention the fact that competition had half of these features in their OS for a while now.

    People are simply making a huge deal out of Windows 10 when in fact, it's not. Fanboying aside please. They haven't changed core stuff, such as Kernel or new file system or something third, but rather decided to take Windows 8.1.1 and work on it by adding new stuff or changing things most people didn't like. I wouldn't bring money into the equation because surely Microsoft have earned enough to do anything, including entire OS re-write or whatever else they can do, so arguing about that would be silly, to say the least.

    I do hope final build for Windows 10 will change quite a lot, because right now, there's no way majority Windows 7 users will move to 10, including myself.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4.    09 Oct 2014 #4

    So far, nothing that I would consider paying for, over Windows 7, which I've already paid for.
    If this is all there is then I think 7 users should get a free upgrade as well.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5.    09 Oct 2014 #5

    Hi there

    Since Ms gets a lot of "Fees" from corporate users I'm sure there will be "Sweeteners" for Corporate upgrades.

    I'm sure that there will at least certainly be a decent upgrade path from W8.1 -- I mean if W10 is going to come out shortly AFTER XMAS then people buying a computer with essentially an Out of Date OS will expect a FREE upgrade.

    I'd imagine that Ms WILL certainly encourage initially people to upgrade - they also have to appeal to the STILL 100,000's of people using XP as well

    I can easily see a price of around 50 USD (Max) initially and probably cheaper for selected users. -- later a different ball game though.

    I'd also like to see something like a "Family Pack" - most households have more than ONE computer now -- I have actually 8 (working) lying all over the place and that's just me !!!!

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  6. Joined : Sep 2014
    Posts : 35
    Win7x64 Win10x64 Linux Mint
       09 Oct 2014 #6

    johnwillyums said: View Post
    So far, nothing that I would consider paying for, over Windows 7, which I've already paid for.
    If this is all there is then I think 7 users should get a free upgrade as well.
    Many people thought Vista was a dog but once you stripped it down and combined it with the required hardware then it wasn't that bad at all. Problem was M$oft vastly underestimated the hardware requirements and once it got a bad reputation, whether justified or not, then the bad news just spread. Fortunately for Win7 the realistic hardware requirements had 'caught up' so it took off and rightly so.

    I run both Win7 & 8 and really cannot see what the latter brings to the party in a desktop/non-touch laptop environment. It may knock a couple of nanoseconds off the boot time but how often do I boot up my PC - it's no big deal. Is 8 quicker than 7 - not really. So what exactly does WinX bring that party.

    I'm currently in agreement with other posters that what we're really seeing is 8.2 being marketed as 10 - M$ trying to 'loose' the 8 reputation?
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7.    09 Oct 2014 #7

    I agree with most of the posts above
    however
    @jimbo45
    this
    jimbo45 said: View Post
    Hi there

    Since Ms gets a lot of "Fees" from corporate users I'm sure there will be "Sweeteners" for Corporate upgrades.

    I'm sure that there will at least certainly be a decent upgrade path from W8.1 -- I mean if W10 is going to come out shortly AFTER XMAS then people buying a computer with essentially an Out of Date OS will expect a FREE upgrade.

    I'd imagine that Ms WILL certainly encourage initially people to upgrade - they also have to appeal to the STILL 100,000's of people using XP as well

    I can easily see a price of around 50 USD (Max) initially and probably cheaper for selected users. -- later a different ball game though.

    I'd also like to see something like a "Family Pack" - most households have more than ONE computer now -- I have actually 8 (working) lying all over the place and that's just me !!!!

    Cheers
    jimbo
    While I think this might have been the case in the past. I think companies tend to follow the people, and with Apple's latest OS X Maverick's, it can be run on most of today's PCs (No MAC needed). And Apple's suite of office tools are nearly just as good as Microsoft's, and let's face it Apple dominates the App world. Also given the fact, Chromebook is developing more and more offline applications. I see that people could easily migrate to another OS. If that happens the corporate World will follow suit.

    Apple is already pursuing the big boy bucks, so, I don't think Microsoft is a safe as some may presume in that corporate haven. Visa and MasterCard seem to be embracing the new Apple Pay (which I do to). This could really re-shape how our normal every day business is conducted.

    Honestly, I feel Microsoft's biggest headaches are just starting, making the Windows 8 blip, just a little bump in the road, compared to the big picture of things to come.
    Last edited by Trust_No1; 09 Oct 2014 at 14:01.
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  8. Joined : Sep 2014
    Posts : 236
    7, 10TP
       09 Oct 2014 #8

    I have just replaced my Windows 8 with Windows 10. Windows 8 served me a minor role - it was a second OS, mostly for iTunes. There was one thing it did better than Windows 7 - move files. But the speed difference was visible only when huge files were involved and that I could do on the second OS. Otherwise it was plain ugly and did not add anything compared to Windows 7, so 7 is my main OS. The preview will serve the same purpose along with satisfying my curiosity about the new product. So far I have not seen anything that would make me move away from 7.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  9. Joined : Oct 2014
    Posts : 135
    Windows 10 64-bits
       09 Oct 2014 #9

    Jimbo is right, there are no major changes to the NT kernel since Vista:

    Vista version 6.0
    Windows 7 version 6.1
    Windows 8.1 version 6.3
    Windows 10 version 6.4

    The size of "ntoskrnl.exe" in the "C:/Windows/System32" has changed to accommodate technology and GUI changes. For example, in W7 the size is 5.29MBs while in W10 is 7.08MBs.

    I don't see much difference between W8.x, where the system boots directly to the desktop, and W10. Bringing back the start up menu in W10 is pretty much useless, once you've got used of W8.x anyway.

    There's one major difference that's not related to the interface and/or the kernel...

    In W8.x MS has introduced the bing integrated search charm that by default, searched the internet for the terms typed. Other searches, such explorer, were not integrated with bing. One could disable displaying bing search result within the search charm, but the charm still made connection to bing.

    In W10, the bing search is integrated everywhere, including the explorer. With the pending Cortana activation for W10, the chances are that all searches will be integrated in to the MS cloud. In the latest version, there's no choice to limit the the search integration, other than not using the OS.

    In both W8.x and 10, the search terms and results are communicated back to the MS cloud in TLS v1.2 tunnel. As such, it's not easy to see what exactly is being sent to the cloud. A cynical view is that the end user profile can easily be established via the search integration and other information about the end user that MS has already collected during OS, software, etc., activation.

    Is this valuable information for marketing company? The chances are that the answer is yes. MS is not the first one to create profiles on a rather sneaky way, for example Google have been doing it ever since and their business is still going strong. MS just want to catch up with other companies by creating the profiles within the OS in itself, instead of just relying on the browser. Maybe MS will make Windows XX available for free, if they'd follow Goggle's lead. At least for the home users and they may keep the corporate version separate.

    I for one will keep using W7 and W8.1 until there are no other choice but to chose the OS. By that time, the chances are that it'll be a lot worse by then...
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  10. Joined : Sep 2014
    Posts : 236
    7, 10TP
       09 Oct 2014 #10

    I did not pay attention to search, but I will take a look, thanks. Normally, I do not search local files, but it's strange that local search is tied to the cloud.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


 
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