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  1.    28 Sep 2015 #71
    Join Date : Sep 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by pokeefe0001 View Post
    Except "right" is a legal term, no legal body that I'm aware of has granted us an unalienable right to know the contents of Microsoft fixes. Maybe there is a moral or ethical obligation to provide us with such information, but what does Microsoft (or most other large corporations) care about morals and ethics?

    But what good does this information do us if we can't do anything with it? I think it's a bigger problem than just not having that information. Microsoft no longer gives us any control over what maintenance we apply. (Ok. Some control over "when". No control over "what".) And we have no more "right" to demand that control than we have to demand the information.
    Did not The EU sue MS over the integration of IE into their OS?? Well Edge is now integrated into their OS so where is The EU? Wait until users have to pay for it. The courts will be overcrowded with lawsuits.
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  2.    28 Sep 2015 #72
    Join Date : Jan 2014
    Oak Ridge TN, USA
    Posts : 24,487
    Windows 10 Pro x64

    Quote Originally Posted by Trust_No1 View Post
    I think it is 'by' not 'buy'. However, it is MS so you are probably correct.
    Yup.. I did a typo.
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  3.    28 Sep 2015 #73
    Join Date : Jan 2014
    Oak Ridge TN, USA
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    Windows 10 Pro x64

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary View Post
    Did not The EU sue MS over the integration of IE into their OS?? Well Edge is now integrated into their OS so where is The EU? Wait until users have to pay for it. The courts will be overcrowded with lawsuits.
    I would think the same ruling that applied to IE would also apply to Edge.
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  4.    28 Sep 2015 #74
    Join Date : Feb 2015
    Bamberg Germany
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    Win10 Pro, Win10 Pro N, Win10 Home, Win10 Pro Insider Fast Ring, Windows 8.1 Pro, Ubuntu

    Bo VesterdorfMicrosoft Corp v Commission (2007) T-201/04 is a case brought by the European Commission of the European Union (EU) against Microsoft for abuse of its dominant position in the market (according to competition law). It started as a complaint from Sun Microsystems over Microsoft's licensing practices in 1993, and eventually resulted in the EU ordering Microsoft to divulge certain information about its server products and release a version of Microsoft Windows without Windows Media Player. Also, the European Commission especially focused on the interoperability issue.[1]
    Contents

    [hide]



    Facts[edit]

    In 1993, Novell claimed that Microsoft was blocking its competitors out of the market through anti-competitive practices. The complaint centered on the license practices at the time which required royalties from each computer sold by a supplier of Microsoft's operating system, whether or not the unit actually contained the Windows operating system. Microsoft reached a settlement in 1994, ending some of its license practices.[2]
    In 1998, Sun Microsystems raised a complaint about the lack of disclosure of some of the interfaces to Windows NT. The case widened when the EU examined how streaming media technologies were integrated with Windows.[3]
    Judgment[edit]

    Citing ongoing abuse by Microsoft, the EU reached a preliminary decision in the case in 2003 and ordered the company to offer both a version of Windows without Windows Media Player and the information necessary for competing networking software to interact fully with Windows desktops and servers.[4] In March 2004, the EU ordered Microsoft to pay 497 million ($794 million or 381 million), the largest fine ever handed out by the EU at the time, in addition to the previous penalties, which included 120 days to divulge the server information and 90 days to produce a version of Windows without Windows Media Player.[5][6][7]
    The next month Microsoft released a paper containing scathing commentary on the ruling including: "The commission is seeking to make new law that will have an adverse impact on intellectual property rights and the ability of dominant firms to innovate."[8] Microsoft paid the fine in full in July 2004.[9]
    In 2004, Neelie Kroes was appointed the European Commissioner for Competition; one of her first tasks was to oversee the fining brought onto Microsoft. Kroes has stated she believes open standards and open source are preferable to anything proprietary:[10]
    The Commission must do its part.....It must not rely on one vendor, it must not accept closed standards, and it must refuse to become locked into a particular technology – jeopardizing maintenance of full control over the information in its possession
    Microsoft Corp v Commission - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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  5.    28 Sep 2015 #75
    Join Date : Feb 2015
    Bamberg Germany
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    Hey ya'll complainers, do you remember this when you installed Windows 10?
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Did you even read it(Thoroughly, not skim) before clicking "I accept the license terms"?
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  6.    28 Sep 2015 #76
    Join Date : Sep 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cliff S View Post
    Hey ya'll complainers, do you remember this when you installed Windows 10?
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Did you even read it(Thoroughly, not skim) before clicking "I accept the license terms"?
    Did you? What if your do not live in The US? Evidently MS is not in compliance with The EU Ruling:

    In May 2008, the EU announced it is going to investigate Microsoft Office's OpenDocument format support.[28]

    In January 2009, the European Commission announced it would investigate the bundling of Internet Explorer with Windows operating systems from Microsoft, saying "Microsoft's tying of Internet Explorer to the Windows operating system harms competition between web browsers, undermines product innovation and ultimately reduces consumer choice."[29][30] In response, Microsoft announced that it would not bundle Internet Explorer with Windows 7 E, the version of Windows 7 to be sold in Europe.[31][32][33][34][35][36]
    On 16 December 2009, the European Union agreed to allow competing browsers, with Microsoft providing a "ballot box" screen letting users choose one of twelve popular products listed in random order.[37] The twelve browsers were Avant, Chrome, Firefox, Flock, GreenBrowser, Internet Explorer, K-Meleon, Maxthon, Opera, Safari, Sleipnir, and Slim[38] which are accessible via BrowserChoice.eu. The automatic nature of the BrowserChoice.eu feature was dropped in Windows 7 Service Pack 1 in February 2011 and remained absent for 14 months despite Microsoft reporting that it was still present, subsequently described by Microsoft as a "technical error". As a result, in March 2013 the European Commission fined Microsoft €561 million to deter companies from reneging on settlement promises
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  7.    28 Sep 2015 #77
    Join Date : Feb 2015
    Bamberg Germany
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    What a silly stupid court ruling, obviously made from IT dilettantes All one does is open up IE, download another browser and set it as default. If someone doesn't know how to do that, they have no business surfing any how.
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  8.    28 Sep 2015 #78
    Join Date : Sep 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cliff S View Post
    What a silly stupid court ruling, obviously made from IT dilettantes All one does is open up IE, download another browser and set it as default. If someone doesn't know how to do that, they have no business surfing any how.
    I know especially since the user can remove it, not so easy with Edge though.
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  9.    28 Sep 2015 #79
    Join Date : Feb 2015
    Bamberg Germany
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary View Post
    I know especially since the user can remove it, not so easy with Edge though.
    I only use Edge just to see how it's coming along(Gary in this case I'll hold my opinion to myself-for the sake of peace) but other than that, I just don't use it(or Groove either too). I pretty much use the same stuff since Windows 7 still some Window's programs, some 3rd party(I'm an eclectic user).
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  10.    28 Sep 2015 #80
    Join Date : Jul 2015
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Posts : 360
    Win10 x64 Pro -2 desktops, 1 laptop

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary View Post
    I know especially since the user can remove it, not so easy with Edge though.
    Even if you can't remove it, you don't have to use it. And even if some internal Windows features use Edge (and I don't have any idea if that's the case), that doesn't impact what browser the user uses for his/her own purposes.

    I thought the EU suit was more about having to pay for parts of Windows they didn't use than having the code sitting on disk. That could still be a problem with Enterprise versions of Windows. How much of the cost of a Windows 10 license goes for Edge (or Cortana, or other junk, ... err, I mean fine applications people might not want)? That will probably keep the EU legal teams busy for a while.
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