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  1.    17 Sep 2014 #11
    Join Date : Jan 2014
    Oak Ridge TN, USA
    Posts : 24,523
    Windows 10 Pro x64

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleJay View Post
    I agree about the bloatware! It was the main reason I purchased my last PC from a "build to order" manufacturer.
    +1 The next time I just might buy a bare-bone kit or just use a web site to determine if all the parts are compatible and do a DIY job.

    I hate bloatware!!
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  2.    17 Sep 2014 #12
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    Newport, South Wales, UK
    Posts : 1,933
    Windows 10 Pro x64 FCU - XP/Vista/Win7/Win8.1 in VM for testing

    PCs without an operating system are and always have been available, they're called MACs seriously though if you look to specialised suppliers it's normal to have an option for which OS to be pre-installed, or indeed to have none at all.

    This configuration stage is suitable for the markets that these outlets serve - Businesses, Pro's and enthusiasts.

    With the box shifters they are selling an appliance that happens to be customisable after purchase - this is a completely different market
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  3.    17 Sep 2014 #13
    Join Date : Jan 2014
    Oak Ridge TN, USA
    Posts : 24,523
    Windows 10 Pro x64

    Quote Originally Posted by ARC1020 View Post
    Fair comment. It would need to come with a specialised boot screen so that when you turn it on it allows you to set up internet/wifi, then choose to purchase, download and install Windows directly from Microsoft. Maybe even give you the option of an alternative freebie OS if you so choose to get around anti-trust.

    IPad Mini is even worse, because it doesn't even give you the option to setup wifi/the internet, just an uninformative blank screen with a flat iTunes icon with a cable coming out of it. No instructions, nothing. Therefore instead of just connecting to wifi, the user has to download/install iTunes on a normal computer, connect the ipad via USB and then download IOS for the ipad via the PC.

    Alternatively, they could allow you to buy the hardware with a bundled USB stick containing the OS of your choice for those who either don't have internet or have slow/capped internet? I think the key here is choice. It should be possible to buy the hardware and OS separately if someone chooses to and not be forced to have all the bloaterware installed on your brand new machine.
    Hmm,, While choice is nice some users might opt for Linux and not really understand what they are getting or not getting. Then they would have to go back to Windows and who's going to take them through that process??
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  4.    17 Sep 2014 #14
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    Newport, South Wales, UK
    Posts : 1,933
    Windows 10 Pro x64 FCU - XP/Vista/Win7/Win8.1 in VM for testing

    Quote Originally Posted by BunnyJ View Post
    Hmm,, While choice is nice some users might opt for Linux and not really understand what they are getting or not getting. Then they would have to go back to Windows and who's going to take them through that process??
    I'll give them a quote
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  5.    17 Sep 2014 #15
    Join Date : Jul 2014
    UK
    Posts : 19,183
    Windows 10

    Quote Originally Posted by BunnyJ View Post
    I'm not sure how easy it would be to purchase a new PC without an OS on it?? I think you might be able to do this from an online merchant but to go to a brick and mortar store and get one like this?? I'm going to guess that's going to be difficult at best.

    I purchased my PC from a local shop that did a custom build for me and I was able to purchase it on a payment plan to top it off. So I know I could have got it without an OS for sure. When I did get mine it had Win7 Home and I did a clean install of Win8.1 Pro so I had that chaise in a round about way.
    Not sure how easy it is in general to buy one without and OS at a store, but near me it is very easy, I know a few people who have gone the custom route, but have had windows put on it

    We have a big chain called Currys, which will only do off the shelf, I don't believe they do custom, these are usually outside the town/city centres (used to be other big chains but they closed down)

    In my area, there are also about 3 or 4 small IT shops, which do off the shelf builds or pre built for what you want, so I could easily walk into one of these, find a machine I liked and bought it with Linux instead of Windows, or no os at all if I wanted (cater for all)

    the problem with getting from the smaller shops here, is the price is higher than getting the same thing from a big chain (with os included), so if you just want standard build of something, its cheaper with the OS included
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  6.    17 Sep 2014 #16
    Join Date : Jan 2014
    Carencro, LA 70520
    Posts : 8,484
    Mint 18.3
    Thread Starter

    If this catches on in other country's or even the US it could solve the missing install media that OEMs want to charge for.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  7.    17 Sep 2014 #17
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    North West Indianapolis, Indiana
    Posts : 450
    Windows 7 Ultimate 64 Bit and VM

    I build my own and this does not apply to me as I also own plenty of Windows licences from 95 onwards. I even have 3 x 8 pro licences. We have been through this process before. A computer is absolutely no good without an OS unless one likes to look at the "Missing Operating System" Insert disk and try again message. People in the past have insisted OEM refund them the Windows Tax and there are varying stories of success. Some do get refunds some not. I know for a fact Dell sell you 7 or 8 but only some specialist dealers will sell you a PC with no OS. How do you know the PC works? Graphics cards can output the basic 640 x 480 and then fall over and die with 1080p drivers. Hard drives could be defective. That is one reason OEM sell a complete system. I mean no one demands a refund from the OEM when they buy a tower and they get a new mouse, keyboard, power chord, monitor which in all honesty they already have so why the OS?
    Last edited by Indianatone; 17 Sep 2014 at 12:22. Reason: TYPO I am THE KING of TYPOS
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  8.    17 Sep 2014 #18
    Join Date : Jan 2014
    Washington
    Posts : 302
    Windows 10 10586

    If that's the case, android shouldn't be preloaded on certain handsets that also can run Windows Phone. mac os shouldn't be preinstalled, the user has the choice in that matter...

    Honestly, most ridiculous thing I've ever read. Not only is it just random and beating a dead horse that's been dead well over a decade, does that judge HONESTLY think everyday people know how to install operating systems to begin with?

    As for the PC's price including Windows, the bloatware that ensues reduces the cost of licensing. If that's the center of the case, ok.
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  9.    18 Sep 2014 #19
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    Nothern Ohio
    Posts : 644
    Windows 7/64 Professional

    I don't have a problem because I build my own systems.

    I can see where large stores would have a problem. They would have a warehouse full of computers with nothing on them. They would have to wait at point of sale for someone to load the customers desired operating system and update it. Many of us know how long that takes. The big manufactures like H.P. would not be able to installed a operating system in a assembly line fashion.
    Just putting the operating system DVD of choice in the box and allowing the customer to install it will not work for 99% of customers.
    No bloat ware is a great idea except it will raise the price of computers to 99% of users to compensate for lost earnings bloat ware brings in.

    Their is pluses and minuses to most everything.

    Now how is the problem solved?
    The stores can keep a certain amount of computers with no operating system and let the customer choose which one they want. Give the customer the choice of installing the operating system or paying the store to install the operating system.
    Now you have a computer with the desired operating system without bloat ware.
    The downside would be a higher price to the customer.

    Example:
    I wanted a F150 with no power anything. (Windows, mirrors, seats ect.)
    4WD manual shift lever, (no push button)
    No carpet so I could just hose the dirt and mud out. We use to call that a plain Jane.
    It cost me more that one with deluxe interior, auto 4WD, all the power accessories.
    Why was that. Just because they had to take it off the assembly line and do it special the way I wanted it. The extra work cost more than the extra goodies cost.

    The thing that don't make sense to me is; how many people want to buy a new computer without Windows installed? Their are some but I'm thinking they would go to a specialty computer store and pick out what they wanted and have it built.

    Microsoft would surly like the idea of not selling H.P. millions of copies of Windows at a discount price but instead sell millions of retail versions to customers that just bought a computer without Windows installed. Then most of those customers would have to pay someone to install Windows. They don't no how and don't want to know how.

    In the E.U. countries they claim this is done to help the customer. Bull Droppings.

    It will cost the customers as a whole more money and head aches.
    The E.U. dose things like this to show big companies whose daddy is stronger.
    Companies like Microsoft and H.P. don't care one way or the other. You just let them know how the judge wants things sold and they will sell that way and adjust the price accordingly.

    Their are but a few major computer manufactures and one major operating system manufacture.
    What is the people of the E.U. going to buy? A Russian computer with a counterfeit Chinese operating system of choice. The computer users of the world don't have a lot of choices.
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  10.    18 Sep 2014 #20
    Join Date : Jan 2014
    Washington
    Posts : 302
    Windows 10 10586

    I just call BS on the whole case. HP sells WINDOWS PCs. They do not sell Linux PCs. They do not sell PCs with mac os on them. They didn't force ANYONE to buy their PCs and take the cost of Windows. That's just what the finished product is. What an idiotic court case....
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